2 - I said okay, I'll install literally anything you want in order to fix it going forward
3 - You say that's not good enough and that I need to fix it
4 - I say, given that you seem to think I am part of the problem, I want you to help me fix it
5 - You say not only is that not good enough, but you will not engage in the solution because it 'isn't yours to fix'
Do you not see the reality-breaking level of disconnect you have right here?
While am new here, I share this understand and confusion Toki........
Later on when your free we could talk shop on admin stuff. I been admin in other places on the interwebs and maybe thruogh random discussion we could come up with some ideas. Mainly conversing about methods used in past. I was also Ex military myself soo there some idea's I have there.
I have nothing to really share within this thread other then posting this right here. But I have my brain ready to poke yours Toki's then maybe after that You could posts the results of our idea's here
So by all means, if you (Eaon) or any other number of people want to create a track of discipline (X violations = Y action), or (At 5 points, you're on a one week ban, at 6, a 2 week), or any other system...I'll accept it. Just point blank, I'll adopt it. I reserve the right to strike any absurd provisions, like attempting to tie the disciplinary chart into any sort of IC consequences, et cetera, but I will otherwise simply accept it and make it a rule. I'll remove my "case by case" basis and yield to this system. Just have to give me one.
I've been saying this the entire time I've been site owner, and I post a variation of this publicly every time something like this comes up (because we always go in circles). No one has ever even pretended to take me up on this.
None of you put your money where your mouth is. Just want to make sure we're being honest.
As much as you say you have no faith in staff, whether it be the general "Staff" or me specifically, when offered the actual keys to the car, no one seems to want to touch them.
So...
You can be as dejected as you feel is prudent here, just so long as you're willing to blame yourself for refusing to participate in the solution.
Did you miss me? No? Good. I won't be long and this is my final post.
The site has discussed this and discussed this and discussed this into the ground. As you said.
You know what?
You had a system on Interpersonals back when it was a thing. When you ran Interpersonals, at that. You were quite good at enforcing it back then, as a matter of fact! What changed between how you handled things then and how you are now? You were a great deal better at giving the smackdown where it was deserved. That has changed; not for the better.
Here, let me go back and quote what I gave to you back in 2015. As a suggestion. As something you told me you'd like over Skype and wanted to use because it was fairer than a three strike rule: Link to the Interpersonal discussion thread is here, for the record and for transparency's sake. Reposting my part for ease of reading's sake:
Example Scenario:
Person A has a conflict with Person B.
Person A has tried asking them to stop multiple times. Person B continues to do it anyways/chooses to continue because they don't care or because they get a kick out of A's reaction. Person A tries, again, to get them to stop and when B continues acting out, they block that person from being able to communicate with them. (You can disable PMs from certain people on this site, and you can also do the same in cbox, and the always present do not contact block and removal on your preferred instant messenger.)
Person B decides to continue harassment in the public cbox or finds another way of contacting Person A to keep their jollies going.
This is where Person A goes to Person C (Staff) and shows the information they should be saving/collecting with time/date and direct quotes. Full logs should be kept and unaltered so that Person C can not only see your attempts at negotiating/resolving the conflict yourself, but also the pattern of behavior continuing and/or escalating. This is also where Person A comes with a plan to Person C of what they would like done. Most of the time? Most of those wanting Person C's intervention and presence are just desperate for things to stop and go back to some semblance of normality. "Please get them to stop saying x thing or doing x thing or leave me alone."
If Person A wants something more severe done? That's where logs and compiled information is your friend, and you need to also be able to step away from your own feelings and examine the situation from an outsider's perspective; is what Person B's doing/saying enough that they do deserve something more severe than a warning? The chances of this being a 'yes' are surprisingly slim, I can think of a few examples of where I would have gone to my own 'stage two' warning mode in terms of severity of consequences while I was an actively writing member of this site.
Person C will take your information and approach Person B to have a little heart to heart talk in order to get their side of the story. There's always three sides, people, 'his', 'hers', and the 'truth'. Perspective is a thing, after all, and it's on Person C to get to the heart of the matter and make the call themselves; this is a crappy position to be in and puts Person C into a no win situation. Chances are, Person B will be told to stop the offending behavior/not to interact with Person A on an OOC level and that will be that.
Should Person B continue, Person C will take the appropriate steps from there since asking nicely didn't help, or B continued to be belligerent when asked not to, and thus the official warning gets slapped. If B still persists after that, the punishment train just continues down the tracks until B pretty well just ruins their own opportunities to remain on BG through stubbornness and refusal to follow a simple and reasonable request.
--
While it may not feel effective/good enough to the person reporting, it requires patience and understanding on the reporting individual's end to understand that, though they have done absolutely everything in their power to try and cut the harassment out, they have to go about the 'professional' manner of doing it now, and that means having to potentially put up with it while the staff work on it from their end and go through the appropriate steps in handling the conflict on their end.
The natural progression of warnings vs punishments for behavior/actions is something that I know they're working on figuring out; it's something that needed to be done a while ago and is a good thing we've brought to their attention since the old ways of doing things no longer remain effective. This was a change necessary, admittedly because I don't think the fusion of staff as a collective entity rather than separated by departments (i.e. Approvals, Interpersonals, etc) really understood just how complicated things were going to be when they decided to be the collective jack of all trades/all staff are to be able to handle all facets of staff work and not just specialists.
An unfortunate oversight, but one that luckily can be corrected hastily and will benefit the member base and staff team alike by putting everyone on the same level of understanding once the policies have been finished from their discussion and rough draft working and then presented to the community.
That was August 21st, 2015.
Yes. The responsibility falls on the players to follow those steps. It requires them to send screenshots, logs, and whatever other pertinent information is necessary. It also falls to you as staff to carry through with it and not hand wave it with an "I'll talk to them, that's not acceptable behavior" to placate the individual reporting. If someone on staff isn't able to do the confrontation thing? Find and hire someone who is and has no qualm with dropping the hammer; no bullshit, just facts and the warning of what will happen if they continue after their penalty is lifted.
I know I personally submitted an official charge with logs and screenshots twice. I also know you personally, Tokiyo, assured me that action would be taken and the issues would not crop up again. And they did. With gradual escalation we agreed was being seen-- and nothing was done. That you're pretending no discussions and suggestions were made to help fix this issue is about as disappointing as I see my writing being-- and that's impressive!
I know back when I played here? I didn't want multiple members of staff going, "Poor baby, your feelings are hurt, I'm so sorry, I don't know why that person said." to me. I wanted them, if they feel they have to apologize on behalf of someone else, to do something about it. Adhere to the Rules you set into place or remedy them to fit and follow them nonetheless.
If the above hasn't worked, and by the obvious signs? It's not. Go with what I'm going to suggest below:
4 Strike Rule.
1st Strike: Warning. 2nd Strike: Warning + IC forum only access. 3rd Strike: Site ban for 30-90 days. After which, IC forum access penalty applied an additional 30-90 days. 4th Strike: Permanent Ban.
It is not that difficult to follow the Rules and Code of Conduct long established on this site. Tweak the above to your liking, implement it.
Also as a general note to the site: For fuck's sake people; learn to structure your grievances and handle conflict/confrontation properly when airing them to a public forum. Most of you had to have been taught conflict resolution life skills somewhere in life/school. Use those. If not? Look 'em up and put them to practice.
You know Staff are just volunteers who want to keep the site running, right?
That literally nothing at all separates them from you except that they volunteered, right?
They didn't go to school for this. This isn't their job. This is a hobby writing.
Volunteer if you want it fixed.
I expect people who care about the community will be interested in working to better it.
Or did you just want to get back to your factions and ranks, instead of putting your money where you mouth is?
In response to both of your quotes.
It doesn't really matter that staff are volunteers. The fact of the matter remains that when you are on staff and certain problems crop up it will be your job to take care of them, either do it or step down. Additionally you're right, they didn't go to school for this, this isn't the job they do to make money, but staffing isn't a writing hobby. In fact staff, should you choose to join it in some ways is a job or at the very least a responsibility to others, the fact that you originally came here to write as a hobby has nothing to do with it. At present, you are all but shirking your responsibilities as staff in doing what the site expects of you.
Then we come to "Volunteer if you want it fixed."
What makes you think I believe if I became staff anything other than who's shouldering the blame for the ineffectiveness of staff would change? Takua said that he felt ineffective and most staff wouldn't step up to do anything. I've been talking with Rob a lot lately, turns out he's a lot more chill of a person than I'd initially given him credit for (me being ever the most hot headed person OOCly), and he's said that when it came to dealing with people like Kyou the entire staff was allowed to make a rule on the situation, decided to give him a final warning and he'd be permanently banned. After they'd sent their warning, and Kyou did the same thing again, you blocked the ban claiming you'd never approved it. Salmon apparently also felt that being on staff was completely ineffective and any argument made for or against someone's punishment was determined on a whim and not any set of grounding principals that apply to everyone. So why should I have any faith that my or anyone else's joining staff would have the desired results? Also I am the absolute last person anyone, including myself should ever want as staff.
And you'll note I actually did take part in the solution. I brought up the conversations that lead to this outcome. I've spent days dealing with people calling me out in DMs, I've talked to you when I'm sure neither of us really wanted that conversation, and I've tried despite my growing apathy for this thread still responding to it as necessary because there's still some hope that I won't have to abandon Eaon's story before it's done. However I find myself like Adimus in that with the mass exodus this week (and believe me it was larger than a half dozen players). I will state openly that between my numbers and the numbers of another group feeling the same there were around 20 players, the ones who left this week were the most immediately annoyed. The others either didn't post saying they were leaving, or they were waiting to see how staff handles this situation and how they handle the situation of Kyou's Quincy before they make up their final decision. Its not "Oh 6 or 7 people decided to quit." You're staring at 20 of them ready to leave over all this, and there's probably more, those are just the numbers I've gleamed from the people I've talked to. And if you're wondering, because, you'd be insane if you weren't, I don't take every message I get at face value. If I hear a claim of "Oh Kyou, and Bri, and Shun were DMing plans to derail the Quincy." I don't just assume that to be true. It has to be from someone I trust to be telling the truth, and when multiple people I trust are telling me that they've seen these DMs, and incidentally all of them have either quit or are very close to quitting over it, I believe them quite a bit more than I otherwise might.
To break the entire conversation down though since I do get ranty.
No one feels the staff has integrity. Why would I or anyone volunteer to throw our hats into a ring where the general consensus is no matter what we do, nothing will change nor be enforced but now we get to be blamed for it? You want results, show some integrity. Carry out your staff's decisions to ban Kyou, you've got apparently 32 pages of complaints in your staff board on him, one or more of your groups of staff have elected to do it. No one's going to think you're an awful person for it, and it'll do wonders for convincing anyone still watching that you're serious about improving the site.
But no seriously I'm up to my chin in accusations of detailing the Quincy despite having made my Quincy months ago and have done nothing but tried to thread with Quincy and get people involved in stuff.
No, I haven't exactly been active lately due to a multitude of personal reasons I didn't and still don't want to be public. But despite that I was active in the Order to the best of my abilities and threaded with everyone who came to me wanting to. I've done absolutely nothing off putting.
And then Kyou suddenly makes a Quincy and I'm trying to ruin everything? Have you guys forgotten who one of the biggest advocates for his ban is? Him and I have gotten along at times, but that doesn't change my opinion of his past actions.
I know this is a tad off topic but it keeps being thrown around blindly and I want an answer.
Post by Consequence on Feb 4, 2017 13:14:21 GMT -5
To me, integrity does not mean abolishing your beliefs or guiding values because of majority vote; it would actually be quite the opposite.
There is nothing for me to 'handle' regarding Kyousuke's Quincy. He has one, and he is free to play it just like anyone else. And if the idea that you might have to compete against him is so potent, so threatening to you, then it's likely best you just pack it in and head out. I don't think people are made better by having their competition removed; all you have to do in order to defeat Kyousuke's Quincy is simply write. That's it. Just write.
Tell your stories with each other and accrue that GP.
Or quit and start over somewhere else.
At least with the Shinigami there is a rank structure that's firmly entrenched that is much more inviting of abuse--after all, orders are orders. Quincy are not bound by anything like that; the future is literally entirely up to the people forming it today.
You have a 10k GP Frey, a Prestige 360 Reiatsu Adimus 400 Reiatsu Jian Prestige Dew, 200+ Amelia Eaon has a second Power Munin would have one if he didn't quit
And you are all running, literally off of the site, from Otto Berg.
Okay.
Kyousuke was disciplined for evading his chat ban. I am not going to ban because you'd like things to be easy.
If you want to fix the discipline issues, stick around and help create the very thing you're asking for. I maintain my promise to fully adopt whatever is forged.
Or, new frontiers await you.
I think we're all tired of this discussion. The candor in continuing to have it is wonderful, really. Takua made an incredible post, and you even dusted off Kireon to help out. I think it's pretty clear where we're at and where the line will stay drawn. If what I have said above is not good enough for you, it's truly been a pleasure to serve as your home for roleplaying for as long as you have allowed me to have the honor.
You don't know me and I hardly know any of you; I joined maybe a month ago but haven't been horribly active ic or ooc due to the ups and downs of life. I, however, have taken the time to read through all these threads as I, like anyone would be, was interested in what kind of site I was joining. Of course, I can't claim to have intimate knowledge of either side of the argument due to my short time here, so if you want to disregard what I'm saying you are well within your right to do so. I'd just like to throw my two cents in here as I have rather taken a liking to the site as it seems a notch above others I have been a part of.
From what I can tell all parties involved want a solution. If the staff didn't want one they would have shut down the conversation ages ago and if those opposed (perhaps not the best word here, but meh) didn't want one they would have simply left without airing their grievances and that would have been that. It is quite telling as it indicates both sides actually care about the outcome of whatever it is you'd like to call this, a problem, a misunderstanding or what have you. After all, it people have practically written essays on the matter thus far and I think that is great, community discussions are important.
Now, I wouldn't be so bold as to say 'hey this will work', but might there be some common ground to be found here? As of right now, it seems both sides are on opposites sides of the same wall smashing their heads into it in hopes of making progress. In my experience, the only thing that wins here is the wall (insert obligatory ten feet higher meme here). How about instead of continuing to bash away at the wall both parties walk around it and meet somewhere in the middle?
It seems the focal point of this argument is the trustworthiness of staff especially in regards to allegded favortism. I know next to nothing about Kyousuke, but I do know people can be dicks. I also know that people, in general, do not take kindly to ultimatums, which in this case has been presented to the staff as 'ban this dude he is an ass and always has been'. Perhaps might it be better to take a more measured approach in this matter?
Instead of starting off by banning Kyou why not put him on a final notice? From what I have read there is more than enough evidence to do so and if those calling for a ban are convinced that this person will not change then they should be more than comfortable giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I imagine here is where someone will say something to the effect of "He has already had plenty of chances, burn the witch!" and sure maybe he has, but we have to start somewhere, no?
As to staff accountability, well, that is where Consequences' offer to mold the CoC to the community's liking comes in. I've seen a few suggestions above that are worth talking about (strikes are always a good way to go, in my opinion). How about instead of pointing fingers we move to come to a solution?
Just a thought about one of the previously mentioned issues I thought I'd throw out there. What about some sort of banning rubric? Like instead of a hard x=permaban, something like: how many people does this affect? x/x how bad does it hurt them x/x how much of a prior record do they have? x/x etc. and a certain score earns a certain punishment.
"Hi, I'm a stone cold son of a b**** who kidnaps innocent young women and give zero damns for whatever any of your concerns are!"
Here's the part where I make a long post about shit.
except I'm not going to bother to do that.
Honestly, it's idiotic. Here's the first thing: whoever said that I was quitting is mistaken. At most, I said probably. If I was quitting, I'd make a shitty goodbye post with a lame title like "Tata" or something dumb like that.
Other than that, none of you checked. Nobody bothered to ask, despite my Skype being available on my profile and my discord probably being something you could ask. Heck, you could've sent me a goddamn PM? Seriously. Don't assume just because you don't want to potentially offend me by asking or whatnot.
Jeez. Part of me wants to quit just because that was the 'last straw' but really, I'm just tired of the shit that's been going round biannually. Sigh. I don't really care if Hazuki ends up being banned or not, or if Shun ends up being banned or not, hell you could ban me if you really wanted to. I'm just irritated that this nonsense keeps popping up because all I really want to do is write my goddamn character. Heck, I don't even know if it's what I want to even do right now or write it solo.
Except I really want to stick around, but if this shit keeps happening, I don't know if it's worth it.
If you have questions for me, PM me or Skype me. Don't rely on goddamn hearsay.
EDIT: now I'm obsessively checking back, so I'm just not going to drop by for a few days.
Post by Consequence on Feb 4, 2017 22:07:49 GMT -5
Regardless of whether or not I was 'told' you were quitting, Munin, it was very much wrong of me to include you in the list that I did, in the way that I did, without verifying your status directly. I put rather serious words into your mouth that you did not authorize me to do. For that, I directly and sincerely apologize.
To me, integrity does not mean abolishing your beliefs or guiding values because of majority vote; it would actually be quite the opposite.
There is nothing for me to 'handle' regarding Kyousuke's Quincy. He has one, and he is free to play it just like anyone else. And if the idea that you might have to compete against him is so potent, so threatening to you, then it's likely best you just pack it in and head out. I don't think people are made better by having their competition removed; all you have to do in order to defeat Kyousuke's Quincy is simply write. That's it. Just write.
Tell your stories with each other and accrue that GP.
Or quit and start over somewhere else.
At least with the Shinigami there is a rank structure that's firmly entrenched that is much more inviting of abuse--after all, orders are orders. Quincy are not bound by anything like that; the future is literally entirely up to the people forming it today.
You have a 10k GP Frey, a Prestige 360 Reiatsu Adimus 400 Reiatsu Jian Prestige Dew, 200+ Amelia Eaon has a second Power Munin would have one if he didn't quit
And you are all running, literally off of the site, from Otto Berg.
Okay.
Kyousuke was disciplined for evading his chat ban. I am not going to ban because you'd like things to be easy.
If you want to fix the discipline issues, stick around and help create the very thing you're asking for. I maintain my promise to fully adopt whatever is forged.
Or, new frontiers await you.
I think we're all tired of this discussion. The candor in continuing to have it is wonderful, really. Takua made an incredible post, and you even dusted off Kireon to help out. I think it's pretty clear where we're at and where the line will stay drawn. If what I have said above is not good enough for you, it's truly been a pleasure to serve as your home for roleplaying for as long as you have allowed me to have the honor.
I think what you are failing to hear and to acknowledge, to validate at all, is one thing.
I don't want to play with a troll.
I don't want to screen shot my life and keep it in a file to the point that I can then get staff involved and say to them, please...make it so I don't have to play with a troll. How long will that take? How long will i have to be on guard and watch my every move in order to stay here and get to RP my story? Why should I have to act like I am living in a war zone when all I want to do is play? It's not about being a pussy who doesn't want to RP conflict. It's about being a woman who doesn't like to have filth in her life. Who doesn't like to be pitted against nastiness and hatred and for why? Because it gives some faceless twat on the other side of a computer screen some cheap thrill? I can't for the life of me understand the attraction of that sort of behavior. It's just plain insanity.
I had his snide remarks in one of my meta-threads because why? My shinigami was Rob's character's daughter? I have never even talked to the man or had a thing to do with him. What other reason could it have been? I wasn't even the target but now every time I go to look at my own activity thread there it is. I am not allowed to NOT deal with this person. I am NOT allowed to ignore him. Not only that, but I am the one who has to change my behavior that on the off chance in an unspecified amount of years, I might have enough evidence that is deemed worthy of someone doing something about stopping it.
That hardly sounds like a fun time to me. But hey...I can just leave. Right? I wish you could hear how terrible that sounds. I can just go someplace else. HELLO??? I'M NOT THE FUCKING TROUBLE MAKER!!!
" Takua made an incredible post, and you even dusted off Kireon to help out. I think it's pretty clear where we're at and where the line will stay drawn. If what I have said above is not good enough for you, it's truly been a pleasure to serve as your home for roleplaying for as long as you have allowed me to have the honor." Right there. All this tells me is, I hear you but nothing is going to change. So leave and good riddance. I will not be getting rid of the poison on this site.
And you know what? I shouldn't have to be staff, to have that sort of strife in my life, in order to have my voice be heard. My role here is to be a player. Period. And frankly, after speaking my mind...daring to complain...I no longer felt I could stay. I had raised my head and been noticed. And if being virtually off the radar did not protect me from this drama then what was to be my future? I knew what that would be like. And no thank you. Why was I certain this would be the outcome? How many pages of complaints was it? Over 30? Well who the fuck am I but some new girl? My voice means less than that of the Veteran players who complain.
It has been made exceedingly clear that speaking up is wrong, that if I do not like it I can lump it or leave. So there it is. An unwillingness to put up with the repercussions of daring to find fault with something has made leaving seem like the only option I had left. I saw what happened to those who dared to bring this up in the first place. Collective insults, invitations to leave, belittling, and blatant misdirection in order to discredit. Eaon told you there were people like me who were afraid to speak out. And what's the reply to that? So what...leave...nothing is going to be done. Unless you fix the problem for us then shut up and go away?
Seriously? Seems to me like the tools to fix this thing have been there all along. Since before I came here if what Kireon says is true.
I'm not running from Otto Berg, I run from being forced to play with a troll, to spend the rest of my days on BG screen shotting every little thing, from being made to feel like shit from every nasty remark and jibe, to have the life sucked out of me, and from not having any fun anymore. Just in order to continue playing Calendrea. I run from what Jinhai said: "No one wants to feel like BG is a war zone. Again, it's a hobby. We shouldn't feel a sense of dread, or anything negative for that matter, when logging on. I understand things can't always be rainbows and sunshine, but is it too much to ask we strive for something a little less...Hostile? We, as the community that is BG, ought to strive to form a hospitable environment that everyone can enjoy." Who is left now that everyone else who felt the same way left before me? It's too late for a fix. They are all gone!
~Marcus is gone...had to end the thread where Calendrea gets hired at KTown's High School. ~Benji is gone...had to end the thread where she and Wraith got caught breaking into the Quincy library. ~Frey is gone...so much for ever going artifact hunting and questing with her. ~Albrecht is gone...had to end the thread where she was keeping watch. And will never get to rp with his new Quincy. ~Walter is gone...I will never get to resolve the major storyline arc that I have been working toward since joining the site. I will never get to have my shinigami reunite with her father, which is a major theme in Zabel's very existence as a character. ~Aidan will be gone soon as well...I will never get to RP going to Ireland and meeting Clann Hughes and getting her senrei glove.
And god love the rest of you that are left, but what good am I to anyone now when I am so upset over everything that has happened that it kills me to vomit up a 200 word reply? I can't even enjoy all the good things and the good people who are still here to have fun with!
If Blue was coming to join the Quincy with a big powerhouse account, I would not have left. I would not have needed to leave. Because I would have known that anything that happened in RP would just be story line. That I would not have to put up with belittling comments, I would not have to put up with a multitude of his old cronies chiming in to pummel me into the ground, I would not have to be trolled on and off site. Yes off site. and you all know exactly what I am talking about. So please do not even bother to insult me by attempting to deny it and feign innocence. I think I deserve at least that much respect. YES DESERVE! Contrary to former words, everyone deserves at least that.
It's not about being unwilling to stand against a take over of the Quincy and a shift in power. It's about having to deal with an unsavory individual who if he said half the things he did to people over the internet to someone's face would more than likely be walking away with a big black eye and a bloody lip for his temerity.
"To me, integrity does not mean abolishing your beliefs or guiding values because of majority vote; it would actually be quite the opposite."
Exactly. I couldn't agree more. You are an amazing human being. I respect the hell out of you. But at the same time, I too am an amazing woman filled with a remarkable wealth of integrity and values.
There is something inherently wrong with a society, something that sticks in my craw every time I hear it, that when confronted by a bully the victims are told what they must do to not make themselves targets instead of dealing with the problem, instead of dealing out Consequences to the offender, it is we upon whom they prey that must be inhibited and conform and withstand attack after attack until the abuse is so obvious and of such magnitude that we either die or someone ends up going to prison.
To quote you once more:
And if the idea that you might have to compete against him is so potent, so threatening to you, then it's likely best you just pack it in and head out.
You are better than this...to make this about RP rather that a case of insufferable abuse. And look at what you traded for the sake of one troll.
I bid you fond farewell. And am sorry if my words offend. But even if it's as I walk out the door, some things must be said. I fought this fight for ten long years. I will not waste my heart nor my energy on it for another ten.
Post by Shinsuke Mishima on Feb 5, 2017 10:54:16 GMT -5
just gonna say real quick that i didn't leave the site cause of kyou or Otto (him killing the quincy i never play would be a mercy killing) i left because the funny handbeezy thread is on pause because of the worker's union strike
i've got no problem with you tony but we didn't all leave because of the quincy stuff, some of us just want to have the least amount of drama as possible and the weird civil war with no give and take makes it no longer fun to be around right now
i will return one day to save the world with the power of basketball
bfa0e5 - Shinsuke - False Persona 7e8dfd - Zenōsha d46c6c - Shinsuke - True Persona
I'm gonna open this up by saying that I'm not taking any sides in this fight. It seems to me that there are solid points on both sides, but I'll get to that in a minute.
Above all, Calendrea makes a really solid point. Now I've decided not to leave, but if I had gone through what she described there, I probably would. Last time I did, the last straw was Iko leaving before Gin could get a decent death scene. It wasn't because I was angry. I won't pretend I wasn't, but that wasn't the issue. It was discouraging that I could make a plan to give my character a good dramatic send-off where he dies for his beliefs, sacrificing himself for a stranger, and have it reduced to "screw it, that initial attack killed him" because this bullcrap ran people off, again. Quite honestly, if it happens again, if the next exodus includes Zettai, Ai, people that I have plots going with, I'm probably going to quit just because of that. Not because I hate Kyou, or Shun, or Toki, or Bri, or anyone else, because I don't, but because having plots broken because people keep leaving just ruins the game.
I should probably leave it at that, but I've had this weighing on my mind all morning, probably longer, and I need to get it off my chest.
Now look, you all know that I'm not exactly the most social, active guy on the site. Most of what I know about this whole situation comes from threads like these, and talking to a few individuals. But from what I gather, it seems to me that Kyou is the kind of person that enjoys toeing the line. If I'm right, it's a game to him. He wants to see exactly how far he can push things before the breaking point, reach the exact point where he is about to be banned, and then pull back. Like poking a sleeping tiger and pulling back just before it wakes up. I suspect that he bends the rules, breaks the rules, not just because he can do it without being punished, but because he wants to see how far he can go without being punished. If I'm right, he probably laughs at threads like this. He probably reads through all of this conflict and laughs at how he pushed everyone this far. Not just at the neutral members either. Not just at the people leaving and threatening to leave. If I'm right, he laughs hardest at you, Shun, Toki, because you are taking the punishment for his actions. You are getting yelled at. You are getting hate. You are losing the player base that you care about and he doesn't.
Maybe I'm wrong. You know much better than I do. If I'm wrong you're probably groaning and rolling you're eyes at how I could ever think that about your friend. If I'm right, you're probably doing that anyway. But if I'm right, you know in the back of your mind that something is wrong with the situation. I know, because I've been there.
But I could very well be wrong. I've never actually witnessed any of his crimes. Everything I've heard about it has come from others. I think I'm right, because even his friends have admitted to him constantly pushing the limits of the system, getting chat bans and stuff. But on the other hand, I know that at least some of his enemies are dishonest. There have been a few times that I gave my full attention to Kyou's enemies, the staff's enemies, and was about ready to leave the site, or did. Then I started talking to others, getting the other side of the story. When I did, I found out that a lot of what they said was exaggerated.
I know with certainty that one of Kyou's current enemies tried to deceive and manipulate me into leaving the site. I am as sure as I've ever been about anything that this person (who shall not be named) at best stretched the truth thin to fit their mold, or at worst, made stuff up about another player, a friend of mine, to make me think that they were doing things for Shun that they weren't, so that I would lose trust in both of them. Do not think that all of Kyou's enemies are heroic, bully-battling white knights bringing the truth to light so that they can save the little people from a troll. At least some of them are liars.
Which brings me to one important point. This person also told me about these logs of Shun and co. planning to ruin the quincy, and stuff. When I insinuated that I'd like to see the evidence (Of the logs and other things too) they seemed a bit defensive about the logs. I'm not gonna go over the whole conversation, but it reminded me of the way other people have acted when they were lying to me. Of course, that too, I could be wrong about. If these logs are real, if someone could show me proof that Kyou, Shun, and whoever else are trying to take everything over and make sure no one else can be important, then I'll pack my bags and leave with the rest of you. But I don't think that's true. At worst, I think they are trying to get their characters into powerful positions in exactly the same way the rest of us would.
considering this, I wonder how many people are leaving because they have real grievances, and how many have been manipulated.
Like I said earlier, I'm not taking sides. I see right and wrong on both sides of this. I see people I trust and people I don't on both sides of this. But one way or the other this needs to end already. Because Calendrea is right about this. This constant drama, these periodic rebellions and mass-exoduses, they ruin the game as a whole. I'm not taking sides. I don't care who's fault it is. I don't really care if anyone gets punished. I just want this bull-crap to end already.
"Hi, I'm a stone cold son of a b**** who kidnaps innocent young women and give zero damns for whatever any of your concerns are!"
I come back after long hiatus, only to hit with another set of drama and this time, mass exodus comes with it. I'm sick of it, I just want a place to write for my character, okay? Just kiss and make up already.
I'm not going to point fingers to anyone, be it the staff or opposite side. Besides, I know how hard it is to maintain a site this big. I had, while on my long hiatus, staffing at a couple different places and I began to appreciate those who hold staff position.
I'm willing to give you my foot and hand soul too if you need help in terms of staffing.
You know Staff are just volunteers who want to keep the site running, right?
That literally nothing at all separates them from you except that they volunteered, right?
They didn't go to school for this. This isn't their job. This is a hobby writing.
Volunteer if you want it fixed.
I expect people who care about the community will be interested in working to better it.
Or did you just want to get back to your factions and ranks, instead of putting your money where you mouth is?
I've already contacted Bri on this, but I'd like to apply for staff again: I just want to help out as much as I can, I know shit's going to be a little tougher to deal with now that we're down to 4 (5?) staff members.
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