Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 21:55:03 GMT -5
Haha, absolutely. But power and precision apply equally to spiritual and physical techniques. In my case, to use an example, Jian punches things well, and then uses sweet punches to do things like blow up buildings. In the new system I'd need to divide between two offensive stats where someone else who phrases it differently uses one.
so what, story etc etc. bah. it matters to not willing knecap myself or have to work harder than others to get to the same place power wise because of flavor conflicting with balance.
Post by Tsutsugami Haruki on Mar 16, 2015 22:01:03 GMT -5
Me too, just a thanks to cool people talking and being level headed.
if we eradicate the quincy can we have their blue?
Getting rid of Weylin might be a bit problematic...
Maybe we can just kill another one of his daughters, and he'll be so overcome with grief and the fact that he's BG's Worst Father 2015 that he'll off himself too?
Do we need a seperate stat for JUMP popularity polls and editor choices for merchandising or are we just going to use OTM to resolve what alts we are allowed to use?
Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 22:13:39 GMT -5
Do we need a seperate stat for JUMP popularity polls and editor choices for merchandising or are we just going to use OTM to resolve what alts we are allowed to use?
Post by Motonabe Kai on Mar 16, 2015 22:18:57 GMT -5
I'm not going to be able to sit here and catch up with everything before posting like I used to (I remember staying on the site until 3am some nights working out issues like this with people).... So I am just going to post what I have to say and I am sorry if someone else has covered it already.
First is the staff stuff....
I am ok with all that, since shortly after we moved from the old site I have been ranting (in staffland and PMs) about how everything was all territorial and how all the "your opinion doesn't matter because you aren't part of the department" was much worse than how we used to do things. Sure our old ways still had departments and there were problems then too, but behind the scenes we all worked together as equals with the admins only having additional power to approve things players did (in staff discussions everyone was not only welcome to participate but was encouraged to do so). All I can say is: "I told you so" and "About fucking time!" So all in all I can totally get behind that.
In regards to mechanics....
I like fiddling with them and I like the extra level of reinforcement it lends (some people, like Tova, refuse to accept RPed character traits and just ignore them when they are inconvenient). However I am not opposed to getting rid of them, I have always prefered to fight in an RPed way anyway. All in all I have concerns with how some people deal with others but if another way to handle that is available I have no objections.
The mortal stuff, lots to go over here....
First I want to make clear that even if others do not know I still remember that Tova has always disliked mortals and wanted them gone. I do not doubt that what he stated in the first post are contributing reasons, perhaps even primary reasons, but I am equally sure that personal dislike/opinion was a noticably large reason for this change. I all note that, obviously, Kyou was of similar opinion and a number of other players who had positions of staff power and highly ranked Shinigami/Arrancar characters felt similarly. It strikes me as unsurprising that these people who choose to play Shinigami/Arrancar and have great IC/OOC influence would decide that the races they do not personally like are unneeded or a "problem" of some sort.
Are mortals incapable of creating moving stories and entertaining interactions as a factor of their race? Hell no! Are they harder for a new member or RPer to play because they don't have the built in support structure of Shinigami/Hollows? Absolutely! Will Kyou and others step in and say I am stupid/don't know what I am talking about? They sure will, but I am confident that we could point to sufficient threads showing great RPing that while their opinions might stand and demand respect that their absolutism is more than a little threadbare. I urge all to remember that there is a difference between personal opinion and absolute truth, that if you expect others to respect your right to hold an opinion they do not like then it is also your responsability to respect their opinion even if you do not agree. I encourage the discussion to focus on facts rather than emotions and opinion conveyed as facts.
What about the name change? I don't mind "a" name change but I would have expected Interpersonals (even if they are now disbanded) to have jumped all over the choice of name since they were created to prevent the kind of gap between member/staff that this wording is causing. Why, might I ask, was it not changed to "Other Races" instead of "Minor Races?" Its a small thing certainly, but equally small for both sides. "Minor" implies insignificance and hurts the pride of those players, but at the same tiem "Other" conveys the broad sense that the staff claim they are trying to impose while not encouraging new players to play an "Other" race. Certainly you could tell the mortal players that being called minor is a small thing to deal with and is supported by cannon, but that doesn't change the fact that some will feel slighted. Similarly can you really say that changing it from "Minor" to "Other" will encourage people to play them or in any way limit the catchall nature of the designation?
Now on to the issue of if the staff should be deciding what people play based on the personal opinions of said staff.... As noted some of the staff and many prominent players who do not play mortals have personal issue with them, so are new and current players of mortals to be constrained by those people's personal opinions? I must say that I am outright ashamed of those of you who have embraced and support this concept. Telling people what they can and cannot play is the opposite of what you claim to be all about! You want to make them give a good reason before they make a PC like that? Ok I can get behind that, its perfectly reasonable to make sur ethey aren't just a ripoff or another Mary Sue. You want to "suggest" that they might want to try one of the "Major" races due to the better networking? I'm all for that too! You want to manipulate players into playing the races that our site owner likes through word choice and active dismissal of those who play anything else? Dude, thats low.... I so very much do not want to believe that the staff of this site, a staff I once told was the best staff I had worked with in 20 years of online RPing, is really ok with manipulating their players like that...seriously disappointed here guys/gals....
Now on to the no reactivation in 3 months.... So you shit on mortals again, with paper thin reasoning. You don't want them to drop threads? What makes them more likely to do so than a Shinigami/Arrancar? The extra support structure makes it easier for people to RP sure but there being more Shinigami/Arrancar they are statistically equally likely to drop threads if not more-so. Even if I accepted that as the primary reason and accepted it as truth regardless of the odds why would you not just impose a penalty as we already do? Why are mortal players worse than Shinigami if they drop a thread? This is not logical under the explanation previously provided. What would this do? It would allienate mortal players and punish them beyond what other races are expected to endure. That does not encourage good storytelling, it encourages the playing of races liked by the owner and influential players for fear of an arbitrary punishment (for reasons that can occur just as often as playing the main races). I'm not saying that this is malicious despite my statements regarding the personal preferences of certain people, I am saying that the downsides of it are not being noticed because of those personal inclinations.
How would I deal with the mortal issue? First I would chang eit to "Other Races" so it can be the catchall category. Second I would keep the whole request thing where not only the concept would be examined to make sure it isn't a ripoff or something the player is likely to grow bored with but also as a place to warn potential players that this kind of choice will result in some inconveniance and reduced opportunity. By making it clear that there are risks and downsides inherant to playing an "Other" race and being sure the idea isn't just a joke we cut out most of the crap that is wrong with mortals. I would then nix the whole "cannot reactivate" thing because of the reasons I stated above, it is simply an arbitrary punishment for someone who doesn't want to toe the party line. Make people who want to walk to the beat of their own drum prove it isn't a fad, but don't punish them just because it isn't something you would personally do....
I think these are reasonable points, I do expect to come back tomorrow to find people ranting and insulting me for them but there they are. Have I been too hard on Tova for his past comments regarding mortals? Perhaps so, and if that is the case I am sorry, however those statements did happen and the resulting world view exists on this site so the possability of it being a contributing factor had to be brought up. I have a mortal I am working on revamping so I am not unbiased, and I have an unstable medical condition that cannot be cured (requiring surgery fairly often) which results in my needing to take medical leave from time to time and so I do not like the idea of my medical condition resulting in an inability to play a character I have worked so hard on.... On the other hand though I have done my best to be as neutral as I could, aknowladging my bias while attempting to set it to the side to make my points.
If you think me a bad person for stating these things then that is too bad, I regret the necessity but I have never been afraid to speak my mind here even when it flew in the face of everyone else. If my needing to duck out for medically needed surgical procedures means I lose all the effort I put into remaking Gin to be better than before then I may as well just walk away and join another site where they will not punish me for an illness I never wished for and cannot cure.
Good evening....
While retired from BG I will try to drop in now and then to talk in chat or something.