Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 30, 2015 18:16:52 GMT -5
Bolded emphasis is mine.
The behaviors of those mentioned and cited as contributing factors to Bri's decision to leave was part of it. This is not up for debate, nor is it up for excuse, etc.
The other part of it, and the part I have not seen addressed is the other component to her decision to leave-- and I can, and will quote her directly if prompted.
Staff's lack of action, a lack of action that was never addressed nor explained to Bri, as someone who came to staff with an issue and expected to have some resolution, was the other contributing component to her decision to leave.
This was not a wanted thing.
She came to you with a problem. "You" being an umbrella term for staff.
"You" failed to do your jobs and to address the situation.
Again, I don't know if it's because of a fear of retaliation, of starting off a shitstorm like this, or what have you. Only staff knows their reasons for not taking the appropriate steps to address a fellow member and staff member's request for help in diffusing a toxic situation.
As members, people fucked up by not cutting the bullshit out and contributing to an environment that was no longer healthy for her to stay.
As staff, you all fucked up by not doing your duties as appropriate.
As a result of member and staff action and inaction, you lost a valued member of the forums and of staff as well.
You can insult and try and take the so called high road, but both parties involved in this stink to high hell and share the blame for this.
do you want me to and staff to bleed our hearts out over our own inaction? what more do you want us to do on this? sincerely. there has been a number of posts by us acknowledging our parts, we know we fucked up, we haven't even tried to defend the whys or the how. we're -all- wrong in this. I should have stepped in and talked to colin, stood up for amaya, done this even before I was staff. people should have stopped and started doing a lot of different things. I'm not hiding from that.
The lack of trust that was created as a result of Staff never doing anything has lead to this.
I'm sure many people actually believe that this is only handled the way it is because it was made public and it became big while secretly "fearing" that in the future, nothing much will change again. This lack of trust leads us "normal members" to repeat ourselves over and over again so you guys don't forget about it while this is still a thing. I guess.
this ain't for the best my reputation's never been worse, so you must like me for me we can't make any promises now, can we, babe?
Claiming that I unknowingly contributed to an environment that made someone feel uncomfortable is not bullying or harassment, it's true. I don't feel any remorse over it because it was unknowingly and I can only control what I intend and can sanely foresee. If I had more knowledge, I could have done something to avoid it! This was out of my hands, because I am not psychic. And that's not what that post says. It claims that I persistently bullied someone. We know what the implications of that are. We know what everyone else read. It wasn't that.
Hide that post and we'll have no problems. Your clarifications are correct, but your summary is strongly in error.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 30, 2015 18:28:46 GMT -5
okay, no big long post. accidentally bullying someone even if you feel 0 at fault for not being aware of is still something you should say oh shit sorry, and then plan to not do the same thing in the future.
I am and have by no means been laying this squarely at the feet of one party. Both parties are at fault here and I will continue to repeat that until the end of time.
Both of "you", collective you in regards to staff and members by the by, have fucked up.
Until now, I have only seen one side publicly acknowledge their part in this specific fiasco-- and that's why I'm in the thick of it repeating myself like a broken record.
An apology from staff is necessary for the inaction taken for Bri, and also for the other members whose concerns and complaints were just shoved into the proverbial file and done nothing with in hopes it would just fade away in time. Acknowledgment of wrongdoing and negligence is key to letting the members know you do genuinely understand why the player base is upset. Had things been perhaps worded in a manner that was taking responsibility for the inaction on their part, the rest of it may or may not have gone down as poorly to the member base and the fire wouldn't have erupted quite so badly.
Your members are trying to work out what they can do among themselves to quell the hotbed before shit gets bad enough to involve staff.
Now is the time for you, as staff, to listen and to try and look past high emotion and highly volatile words to what lies beneath it.
--
That said:
I, personally, don't need you to bleed your heart over an altar of fire in repentance, and I don't need anything like that from the present members of staff or the past ones as well.
What I do need, and what I believe the others may need, is consistency.
Don't make an offer to your member base if you do not intend to deliver and show nothing in the way of progress for said members who put their trust in you.
Get your codes of conduct written. Get your penalty/strikes/warning/what the hell ever system worked out. This takes priority over anything else right now.
Put it forth to the site.
Enforce it not only among the members, but among yourselves as well.
That, in my opinion, is what needs to be done from here on out.
Post by Colin Arascain on Aug 30, 2015 19:08:25 GMT -5
Sorry, Jian, I'm not going to be pressured into conjuring up an emotional reaction. You don't have the right to make me feel something because you think that I should. That is so far beyond your place that I've been just sitting here and staring blankly for a while.
Your only concern is 'and plan not to do the same thing in the future,' which I've already expressed.
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Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 30, 2015 20:07:39 GMT -5
Sorry, Jian, I'm not going to be pressured into conjuring up an emotional reaction. You don't have the right to make me feel something because you think that I should. That is so far beyond your place that I've been just sitting here and staring blankly for a while.
Your only concern is 'and plan not to do the same thing in the future,' which I've already expressed.
I wasn't trying to wizard an emotional response, I feel you should say sorry, that's all. Regard it how you will, do what you want. I just wanted to address it hopefully beyond the perception of someone whom you might consider favoritism or white knighting or whatever that's all.
For what it's worth, I'm sorry I didn't catch you already planned a change going forward, if that's what you meant.
Post by Colin Arascain on Aug 30, 2015 20:14:45 GMT -5
I can accept that.
Still waiting on the acknowledgement that 'persistent bullying' is not an accurate description of what Robert wrote at the top of this page and what Tokiyo later expanded on, and an apology and/or retraction of said original statement.
edit: Or that it was wrong to single out and attack a member to deflect from being called on your own faults. Or, you know, just about anything, really.
Post by Consequence on Aug 30, 2015 20:27:49 GMT -5
As I said before, I am not going to retract. I view it as accurate, you don't.
Telling you I don't believe that just to appease your ultimatum would be disingenuous of me, just as you feigning guilt over something you don't feel sorry about would be disingenuous of you.
Post by Colin Arascain on Aug 30, 2015 20:28:59 GMT -5
This is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of fact. You've proven that you're willing to harass a member you don't like, and that your words mean nothing.
Post by Fulfillment on Aug 30, 2015 20:59:10 GMT -5
Okay, not sure if this is the right place... Anyway...
We all need to take a deep breath.
Here are the facts:
Bullying goes on sometimes on BG.
People reported this bullying to staff and often nothing really happened because there wasn't a good mechanism for it to be dealt with.
This led to several people leaving the site and many people being upset.
One such incident was made public, both the recipient and the accused.
For some reason that devolved into name pointing and finger-shoving. When in truth it just shined a light on the issue here. Yes, Colin impacted Aya-chan's departure by creating an environment she couldn't live with. So did several other people. None of them were told that they were having this impact on anyone. He has owned up to his part in this, rather openly, despite the fact that he doesn't actually need to do so. Since we all said the slates are clean and we start fresh as of a few days ago.
On the other side of things, staff is just as responsible if not more so. They went months ignoring Aya's complaints and not intervening. Because we all know that Colin and most anyone on BG would stop if staff or someone told them they were hurting another player with their comments. This is totally on staff, and others who saw and knew but didn't step in. However, staff has now publically owned up to this, as they should have. But they owned up to it, so let's move on.
Right now we should be talking about what to do next. What happened in the past is the past, both parties are aware of their side of things. The public administration has made their apologies and opened up about their past failures. Colin graciously did the same. You can't ask more out of either of them except the space to work towards a solution.
While waiting for this to be fixed, there should be no finger pointing! On either end, guys! It's not productive. It's also not useful since we're starting fresh. Nothing that happened in the past with players is supposed to get you punished now, so stop rubbing people's noses in it. Let's move on and collaborate on a solution. If for no other reason then because it was the toxic atmosphere of BG that lost us people like Aya and many more, and we're only making it more toxic with this public skeleton-throwing contest.
We can collaboratively own up to our mistakes without getting into petty fights. Let's agree to do this and try to find a fix.
Post by Colin Arascain on Aug 30, 2015 22:59:34 GMT -5
Logging back in to say don't deactivate my characters, please. I'll be posting a few more times regardless to wind things up and could use the time to think.
Post by Colin Arascain on Sept 1, 2015 0:22:51 GMT -5
Well, I definitely don't need to take that kind of abuse at a place I go for fun.
Tova's wrong, that's not who I am, and that's all I care to say on the matter.
You folks have fun without me.
edit: Also hey I just wanna point out I got punished for complaining about staff and asking that nothing bad happen to me because of it, so, yay! Gotta love that.