Post by Shun Minamoto on Sept 1, 2015 2:39:43 GMT -5
I really can't formulate an answer you would accept right now, so I'll avoid the whole "I can't prove my regret" and offer you alternatives.
For one, you give my post too much credit. I ran it by staff, wrote it on the spot, it was hardly meticulously planned. I just got off a 13 hour day, I didn't have the energy for that.
I'm not really sure what you think you can see? You seem to have this strange image of me, not at all backed up by the person who is sitting on my end of the computer? Your allegations don't line up with my life. It literally doesn't make sense?
As for Mortals, if you really believe my "Mortals suck" line, do you think I think Hollows and Vaizards are filth too? Am I the only one, this entire time, who didn't see the obvious sarcasm and playful jabs? I played an Arrancar. I loved what you did with Colin, I think you turned Maya into something great, and I think Kireon was legitimately awesome.
You frighten me because you're unstable and go off like this. You're here evading a post mod just to post as guest and attack me. When people wanted to delete your post and get on you for flying off the handle like this, I made sure you got to say your piece. This guest post will remain for the same reason.
Dude, I'm really struggling. Throw me a bone?
Let's attack the crux of this: mind games, control of BG, power plays, etc.
Why would I care about any of that, why would I add any of that stress to my life, when I have a lucrative full-time job and a start-up that's already making me even more? I have plenty of real-life success and real-life opportunities to do these things. If control of others is what I want, employees and subordinates are a much better way to get that than Bleach Gotei.
Why here, why this place, why now given my circumstances?
I don't get it, so please help me reconcile your vision with my actual situation. I'm here in the wee hours of the morning trying really hard to see where this post is coming from?
Your Enneagram isn't close, unfortunately, but it makes sense.
3w2
You've caught me, I'm an image-obsessed freak.
You're right, it can be said of me. I cannot prove genuine regret in an objective manner. If you find out how, let me know and I'll patent it for you and watch you become filthy rich.
...*squints* is all I'll say about that enneagram for now. I have thinking to do.
If genuine remorse via text was able to be accurately done 100% I would love to throw that shit down along side of a way to harness my pain tolerance into capsule form.
That aside and back on topic; thank you again for the apology and ownership of wrong doing.
--
I- agh.
Snake.
Please. Stop.
Walk away.
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Guys, please.
Unless you have something constructive to add, stop. Breathe. And let's circle back to why this was started to begin with and what we can do to improve.
I said what I need to in the other topic as far as Bri goes. She has my apologies for what I feel I crossed a line on. I don't and will not for calling out issues or behaviors I have problems with. All of which were problems ignored or never addressed and certainly never given any indication of willingness that any effort to. Her feeling bad about it doesn't make them wrong. And at no point will I ever believe censoring people's ability to call staff out on choices they make is wrong. Ignoring it is. How they're worded can be, even with intent. Blunt is, however, not the same as the favorite new buzzword.
I have seen you two go at each other before. This is not new. You might remember the whole "Kyou getting his topic locked" thing. Alot was said against you that got called on in that topic and outside, Tova. People have done it, have trusted you, and many of those people have stopped caring to at the time the comment was made. If you slight people and then expect them to care as to whether or not you're insulted when you made no effort to fix the source of that problem then I don't know what to tell you. Doesn't make it right but if you wondered why no one said anything? That's why. The whole "never wrong" behavior you wanted to cite doesn't just run one way in alot of regards.
That is opinion, though. Salt and what not.
Alot of what you responded to him with was out of context. You're not Hitler, Tova. Few people are willingly and maliciously evil. Selfish? Absolutely. You wanted a problem member gone, one whom you have professional and personal frustrations with. And you found the ammo that seemed like it fit and made a job of convincing people of it.
Let's talk Reima and Shizu for a minute. Two members who, "behaviors and issues" included color a different picture. Reima insulted, attacked, belittled, powergamed, and generally was one of the bigger asses I have come across in my life. And he did it with everyone. You damn well know what Shizu is responsible for. And neither were ever dealt with by staff other than verbal reprimand. No matter how many times it happened. And I am certainly more aware of Reima's case than the other because I dealt with him more often.
With Reima the "bullying" was his approaching Colin unsolicited and telling him "if you don't want me back, I'll leave" at which point Colin did tell him exactly that. There was no more to it and you left out further context of that.
With Shizu, hoping people will shun him for how he's acted is different from how Pak's idea goes in what way? And not liking that a member who has acted as he has coming back is wrong in what way? Is ANYONE expected to be happy with that? Are we just supposed to shrug and go "oh he probably won't do it AGAIN" because (note sarcasm) that was clearly never an issue before.
You leave issues to members to have to police themselves and it creates this issue. Not that I disagree with either of those. Neither has ever changed in any respect I can see and human behavior is reliable if nothing else. Their return is not something that made people warm and fuzzy. In fact it was an issue for several of the members who dealt with them. Members, who have, turned to staff and found that nothing happened.
You used his having a problem with things you've done as examples. So have I. If I see the same issue over and over again while the person responsible for it ignores it and it gets brought up? Yeah it's going to get talked about. And again, that's the position you put yourself in by making those choices and then taking no ownership of them in the wake of what happened. That is opinion as well. Which I should point out none of which is meant to be an attack. You want to talk and respond now? Then we can have an honest dialogue or I can assume it's going to be much the same and go back to spending my time where it matters right now. You've upset friends of mine though and that warrants the attempt.
A mod actually commented and said it was harsher than anything he'd ever seen anyone say, but somehow managed to fall within the rules so he couldn't remove it
Jun 13 2015 03:56 AM Nazomi
if I thought he were being too much of a dick he'd hear about it. But other than you being overly sensitive at times I can't really think of any time recently where I think you've been too out of line.
Jun 13 2015 03:55 AM Colin Arascain
Suffice it to say that I made a comment somewhere that was the worst insult imaginable to the people who understood the context behind it, and mildly voiced disagreement to those who did not. And the person I was saying it to did not.
[/spoiler][/div]
It seemed to be lacking the fact he was comparing someone to you. Or my memory is shit enough that I thought comparing staff bled into that and I couldn't think of a reason to bring it up otherwise. Was wrong though.
And the last bit? That's been spoken on. Not going to keep repeating the same point except to say this: You tried to justify personally attacking someone in public following all the rest of that. You don't need to just "better than that." You really need to stop and reevaluate why it came to that and why you chose to go that route beyond obvious spite. Because I can just about bet it's not a first and it's likely not the first time it's happened in relation to all the rest of the drama very much like this.
Ps, the titty llama was meant in good humor.
The Lord of Nightmares spoke to the God of Dreams, this small child or so he seemed, and bid him the question of his sins,
I really can't formulate an answer you would accept right now, so I'll avoid the whole "I can't prove my regret" and offer you alternatives.
Why here, why this place, why now given my circumstances?
I don't get it, so please help me reconcile your vision with my actual situation. I'm here in the wee hours of the morning trying really hard to see where this post is coming from?
Idk man, why has this happened at least five times.
Why are you always somehow at the crux of it.
Like seriously man.
? I'm as confused as you are.
Like what about Kyou, he was permabanned indefinitely once upon a time, now he isn't. Like what about the three admins system, you said it was there so people wouldn't be prone to bias. Like what about interpersonal "always being a thing" because it was a "necessary evil" Like what about the "Rules and Protocols" that you always put in place so none of it "Will happen again"
Seriously Tova.
You wonder why it happens.
You undermine the systems you made to stop the problem. I can probably list more examples given enough time to think about them because I knowwwwww you've said stuff in the past.
Literally. Am I the only one who finds it a riot that BG has turned back into slightly, slightly less shitty 2011 BG. The only difference being we don't have mechanics? Holy sweet ever-living fuck. It's not that hard to just admit you're wrong and just leave people be. People only throw punches when necessary, EVERYONE talks behind EVERYONE's back, these are facts of BG, these are human traits. We don't openly go on witch-hunts for backstabbing.
Do you know what you did by doing that? You hurt Ezzy's feeling, you hurt Reima's feelings, you've hurt Shizu's feelings. They probably know but they don't need to know. Anyone can improve and you have the nerve to stem this back to Amaya? You've spiralled this out of it being about Amaya, but hey, it's cool. Instead of people talking things out like BG always does it just kills itself. Again.
Use common sense.
Motonabe Kai: Well let me be Titus for a second, "Y u no lol?" "Hey you, out there all alone..." Avatar by Cheesewoo. He does commissions! Flick him a PM on Deviantart.
Post by Colin Arascain on Sept 1, 2015 2:51:33 GMT -5
Okay first let's clear a couple things up.
I'm posting on guest because it was a fun way to point out that you messed up and left guest posts active in this area. You are free to delete all of my posts in this topic or to change it from guest-post or whatever. Don't care. You have my blanket permission to kill my last words here. It wasn't some grand scheme to evade post mod, you're giving me too much credit. I wasn't even sure it'd work.
I went to you for help, and you lied about me, called me mentally ill, and took away my ability to enjoy myself on this site. This isn't 'unstable'. This isn't 'going off'. This is a response to what you know you did.
Searching for those chat logs and taking them as out of context as they were was not something you just threw together.
But in response to your actual question, and I want to stress that I am only posting again because you asked me a direct question, I don't know. It's not my place to know. I don't have an answer beyond 'because you get off on it'. It's what your actions over the years have indicated. You're asking me questions that only you have the answers to, Tova.
There's nothing genuine about you. You've said over and over again that you're not an honest person. This is an example of that.
I have always been a resolutely honest person.
There's no purpose to this discourse because I don't believe anything you say is honest. You're going to do what you do regardless of whatever after-the-fact arguments occur. You're just trying to pacify people. I think we both know that.
Why are you staying up here at 3 AM to talk to me? Because you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to break me down and still have people be okay with you afterwards. You want to go full Hitler Satan and still be liked afterwards, that's all.
I'm really just talking here because I'm bad at disengaging. It's stupid of me.
Post by Shun Minamoto on Sept 1, 2015 2:53:58 GMT -5
Titus, I really don't know what to tell you when you've got so much incorrect information there?
For example: I furiously defended Ezzy. I ripped into Robert for an hour. Despite Reima's behavior towards me, and Shizuminoru's behavior in general, I too defend their due process and don't speak of them at all unless it's brought up in conversation with me?
I'm at the center of things because I've been the most consistently active member since 2010. Naturally I'm going to be at the center of everything, forever. (this is sarcasm, read on) Furthermore, I avoided this entire situation and let the rest of my team handle things until Colin requested my presence. How am I at the center of this when I didn't step in until asked?
Kyousuke's indefinite ban was lifted with agreement from the team at the time.
The three-admin system was done away with by decisions made by more people than just me. Our current team is operating very well under the current setup.
I will constantly make attempts, watch them fail in part and succeed in part, learn and move on. My performance has greatly improved over the years and, yes, it constantly requires trial and error. The things that work today might not work with an evolved community in 2017, we're not a static system where the same thing will always work.
Don't worry, Nazomi, did't forget you. But you've got some fat paragraphs and I'm keeping up as best as I can. Titus was easier to formulate a response to.
I may be wrong, as snake points out, about the snippet from the chat box. But I neither have the logs to refresh myself on anything else. Apologies. Will clip it out of you want but will at least edit in I was wrong.
The Lord of Nightmares spoke to the God of Dreams, this small child or so he seemed, and bid him the question of his sins,
The three-admin system was done away with by decisions made by more people than just me. Our current team is operating very well under the current setup.
We literally just had a thread about how the site had gone to hell in a handbasket. From staff. Claiming-...
I don't even know what to do with this at the moment.
It's entirely too close to time for work for me to break open the gin.
I literally just ranted because it makes me feel better when I do. But cheers I think? Idk. I'm tired again.
I sincerely doubt anything you said is actually logical or true. But arguing with you is like talking to the kid with the bigger stick.
Ciao.
Motonabe Kai: Well let me be Titus for a second, "Y u no lol?" "Hey you, out there all alone..." Avatar by Cheesewoo. He does commissions! Flick him a PM on Deviantart.
Walking right now and coming back after rest/a few hours of something NOT this is something I strongly recommend for everyone right now-- not just you, Tova.
I also do see/acknowledge your attempts.
--
Please, let's disengage and come back to talk later if there are still things left unresolved.
Stop the personal attacks-- in this instance name calling in particular.
Naz, I know it's supposed to be a term of endearment, but not when things are like this, please?
Post by Shun Minamoto on Sept 1, 2015 3:05:00 GMT -5
I never intended to block guests, honestly, I generally don't block them until we get spam bots hitting a board.
I haven no desire to delete a single post.
So let's try a new approach, I'm going to speak my mind minimally. If I keep my words concise, then clearly there's less room for accusations that I'm trying to manipulate the situation.
I guaranteed you access to play your characters. You can even still see the boards on Roleplay Only, a verdict I did not unilaterally pass down: Again, there was a team there. Furthermore, simply asking to not be punished entirely does not guarantee non-punishment.
Context was provided with the logs and we can go get more for them, that's not difficult. When we retrieved these logs, we picked what we thought was most relevant and reviewed their usage in my response.
I have no great attachment to the virtue of honesty. Whether you believe me or not, it's not helping here too much, but I'm trying anyway.
I'd really rather go to sleep. But if I leave, that's plenty of time to evoke a sense of me not caring. I choose to combat this sense by being here, present, and responding to you. I feel as though being here at 4AM lends verifiable effort to my words. I kind of feel like my choices are a rock and a hard place here.
You get some rest, I hope getting that off your chest helped.
Post by Shun Minamoto on Sept 1, 2015 3:06:46 GMT -5
Walking right now and coming back after rest/a few hours of something NOT this is something I strongly recommend for everyone right now-- not just you, Tova.
I also do see/acknowledge your attempts.
--
Please, let's disengage and come back to talk later if there are still things left unresolved.
Stop the personal attacks-- in this instance name calling in particular.
Naz, I know it's supposed to be a term of endearment, but not when things are like this, please?
I was typing this when I saw that you posted, I am finishing it unedited but adding one additional paragraph at the bottom that pertains to your post.
"Actually, I'm going to do the mature thing here and disengage, because I really need to get better at doing it.
My posts in here were stupid and I was only thinking of myself and Tova, not of everyone else trying to enjoy the site despite us, the way I've been trying to enjoy the site despite him and other people I've had problems with for a very long time.
If staff wants to kill the entire part of this thread that kicked off after I posted, they have my blessing, but I'll leave it to their discretion.
If Tova wants to talk to me privately, though I can't imagine why he would, he can find me on Skype or AIM or e-mail or something. Some place where the people trying to use this for a place of enjoyment aren't impacted.
I'll be coming back in a couple of days to post for Ginjiro and probably do a final GP tally, but that's it. Possibly another post in the Captain's meeting if needed, Paks can prod me if it is, whenever it is."
Tova, 'access to play my characters' is not the point. The point is that you've absolutely slandered my reputation. The point is that you are wrong about who I am, and I do not want to be anywhere where I am thought of this way, and where the people in charge are allowed to tell people that I am this way. It is not a stress that I need in my life. I am pretty sure that you know this and that is exactly why you did it, it is not hard to see, but I'll put it out there for the record.
I cannot enjoy myself, I cannot relax, while people with authority are urgently trying to tell everyone else that I am a monster.
I'll check for a while to see if your response to this requires a direct response from me, and if it doesn't, I'll stay gone.
Also hey just a callback to a thing you said re: Naruto Gakure that I didn't remember until now: That didn't happen because I didn't do it. There was no 'falling apart'. I said 'I need a few months, I'll get back on it then'. And then I didn't, because I chose not to spend time making and running a site. There wasn't any drama or anyone suddenly unwilling, that was a complete fabrication on your part.