Post by Kenshou Ine on Oct 4, 2015 20:32:40 GMT -5
The problem was Lyv was everyone turned it into a I hit my cap every round kind of game. That's why they didn't last long and there was no incentive not to do it. Blow your stamina in 3 rounds, but you've won the fight. That's what mechanics became.
I think there is a balance of having stats/skills/techs that we can achieve, but it's probably going to involve having drawbacks built in to doing certain things. Which is probably a good thing, want a giant power attack. Well you probably need to charge it and that will take some time instead of oh I spend 15 stamina and get +500 spirit or even I use 5 instant techs to max all my stats for 5 billion rounds.
More thorough post coming when I'm not on a phone.
But do you people realize that that's how fighting works realistically? I mean it's not how it happens in shows and it's not the best way to write a story but people go all out and try to win because that's what you do in a fight. You don't dick around. You don't wait till you're half butchered to reveal your final form.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Oct 4, 2015 21:58:06 GMT -5
More thorough post coming when I'm not on a phone.
But do you people realize that that's how fighting works realistically? I mean it's not how it happens in shows and it's not the best way to write a story but people go all out and try to win because that's what you do in a fight. You don't dick around. You don't wait till you're half butchered to reveal your final form.
Of course it is, but that's all very boring to model/play out.
Or rather, that can work, but it has to be interesting to play out.
Stat alteration- The introduction of precision is something I like and the consolidation of power into both forms saves both complication and time. I can see the issue of min-maxing. I've seen and felt the urge to push two stats singularly to the limit and build around it, but that isn't exactly viable in a true fight. However, the addition of precision still doesn't solve that problem. If you want to shy away from it, you have to show why it's not exactly the best method for combat.
Techniques- A demonstration of the achievements within a given skill. Basically a method of proving what you can envision and create. Especially when it comes to talking about gaining masteries for skills. Techniques could be an excellent measure of understanding of the skill and the creativity of the individual in applying it. However, they should be limited in use. Techniques should be used as trump cards to gain an edge, not simple parlor tricks to be brought out at kids parties. Which leads into:
Mechanics- Albeit complicated, Stamina should be an important factor in the structure of combat. When fighting, it's not about going all out but eliminating your opponent with the least amount of energy to move on to the next. Granted I'm thinking about fighting in wars and not 1v1 combat. Perhaps not don't reinstate full blown mechanics (I have no idea about what the previous setup was like), but if you are spending GP on skills to build them up they should offer some basic coverage for investing beyond simple bragging rights. Especially if you're going to host a stat based system as the bare bones. Even on freeform sites, there is a basic limit to what a character can do in combat. Such limits would be easy to impose on a 3 tier system like this, but the time needs to be set aside to do so. Classify techniques by the amount of energy they exert and difficulty of the attack. Perhaps don't make it all about hard numbers for Stamina, but how many overall techniques you can use per classification. I could mock up examples if need be.
If I might explain what I think Sully means, Cal- to "go all out" in a fight is to hold nothing back, to focus solely on defeating your opponent and nothing else. This means that you don't have a slow, steady build up of power that grows with each clash, but a single clash wherin you try to kill your opponent as quickly as possible, rather that drag the fight out by holding back.
But my proposed thing to help that was to encourage mid combat claims. Masteries,releases, etc. Go all out. Then when that's not enough, apply to see if you can go further. That's how these work in shounen anyways. There's the antagonist who is holding back because they don't have to go all out. Then the protagonist who is making breakthroughs via the fight itself. One keeps getting stronger. The other reveals their strength as necessary.
Allowing the first to happen allows for players to have a reason to build and struggle instead of saying "welp. You're x rei higher than me and I didn't build some bullshit hidden trick into my character ( <3 you tk) so there's no point"
Forgive me. I come from a freeform site that was in a near-constant state of war. So fights between actual players exchanged within the same thread. So people fought multiple people at a time, usually. So...going all out there would mean you would die quickly...or need to hide. As for delaying fights, I think the fact that most of us don't conform the stereotypical roles of our alignment would throw a wrench in your idea. I like and prefer the outcome of fights dictated by the quality of writing rather than simple brute force. Ingenuity can trump power.
The problem with this, Cal, is that in order to pull it off, you need more strenuously defined everything, you need to go 100% freeform with a general guideline on how much time you have in a turn, and you have to have a judge that evaluates what happened at the end of every turn.
Otherwise nothing is relevant except player agreement. If you agree on what should happen? Lovely! See mine and Erasmus' fight thread. We discussed and planned all that out from the beginning. If you don't? If you want to actually test your character or actually compete for something? There has to be some guiding force. Because what you think is smart and innovative and should give you the hand up, the next person may think is a nonsensical asspull.
I came from a history of RP sites that used the model I mentioned above. Everything was about combat, ingenuity, and treading the lines of limits. Everything was about big moments where you pulled off something no one thought was possible. Combat there was very different than combat under a mechanics heavy system, like this site was, previously. It was lighter (though not for the judges, their lives were hell). It focused more on ability to write, to sway the judge with your words, to convince the world that you could do what you say you could do. Whereas the old system here, was more about strategy in a fundamental, mathematical way. It was about understanding and gaming systems. It was about synergy and contingency techniques.
I like them both.
But I quit those other types of "freeform" sites because the bias was inescapable and damning. No one is completely unbiased. And the game became more about fame (every single time) than it did about actual strategy. It didn't matter if someone was actually a brilliant writer, or an amazing strategist, as long as everyone thought they were. I saw new players try the same maneuvers as vets (because the advice was always "go read some older battles with what you're piloting") and fail catastrophically where the vets succeeded without a hitch. Keep in mind these sites had no stats, no experience gain systems to denote why there should be a difference. They were true freeform.
Sorry to do this Toki its not personal, but Tokiyo the character's stats are perfect for this. { Again, nothing personal just using this as a example. }
That should speak for itself.
Nothing personal taken by your post. Tokiyo's stats aren't to min-max, if they were, I would have 2 things at 120. It's to the character and his behavior - he is a destruction mage incarnate, who has a history with hand to hand combat as a fallback. He isn't going to run away from you, ever. But he can take punches and shoot fireballs. Sorry, if you want a min-maxer, look elsewhere. My stats don't speak for anything except my story.
Post by Jareth Kokkusu on Oct 5, 2015 11:27:48 GMT -5
I try to be a non min maxed but my reaitsu is a bit low to show that Cx I'm going for a sustained damage assassin kind of character. He can get in, stay in, and then walk away as the bad guy blows up (because cool guys don't look at explosions)