Applications and Growth Points

Obviously the assumption is that both pass, else there wouldn't be much to discuss. If you successfully request a 500-GP milestone (for the sake of discussion, from 4,000 to 4,500) and then successfully request Prestige, there's no guarantee that the first milestone would have taken you from 4,500 to 5,000. The order in which you make your requests therefore matters.

Furthermore, there's information that conflicts with your second statement in a variety of places. This is why I'm asking in the first place, because the decision to make the bonus count as base seems extremely arbitrary based on what I'm reading and I've yet to find any information thus far aside from your response here and now that contradicts or reverses it.

The logic behind it going into base is that getting prestige or post-prestige requires all the effort that would otherwise make for a milestone. It's a huge step in character growth and development, and as such any reward you get from it should go into your base GP--the metric we use to judge your character's development and story.

Additionally, we can't just give you 500 earned GP for something like a prestige request and then have you turn around and make a milestone by only changing the header from "Prestige Request" to "Milestone Request" and getting an additional 500 despite the work not actually being there. That's double dipping. However, what we can do is allow players to say "Hey, clearly this prestige request is worth more than 500. I'd like to get 1,000 off this." and we can decide if it is in fact worth double what we normally give out.

Like I said, there are posts (from you, among others if I recall correctly) that state quite the opposite

Clearly my statement above suggests that we've since changed that mindset and are answering your questions under new ideals.

But your Base GP is not a factor in the evaluation of your rank-up request, unless the request is extremely bizarre wherein we would have to say something hyperbolic like, "It's clear your story has gone nowhere, get your 1,500 base away from Prestige"

If your argument is that the value of request should not be static rather than a bland, flat amount that we've been giving, that's the internal discussion we're having right now.

Is that how we do things now? Because I said so without any formal announcements or information? Come now, Brianna, you know better than to try that a) with me and b) at all.



you're right and this is entirely irrelevant to the hypothetical I posed. If you squeeze by with the regular milestone, but you've got enough work done to earn yourself Prestige (the situation here being the milestone is relative development since your previous milestone and a Prestige request is for absolute development since the character's beginning), then the order in which you request things matters.

I've never seen any of you deny a Prestige request because base GP was too low, you guys are pretty swell like that. I have seen you deny requests because "this isn't worth 4,500 Base GP but it's worth 4,500 minus X Base GP". Follow?

I swear to god. You yell at me for not reading?

At what point did "We're talking about it" start meaning "this is how things are now"?

Or more specifically, how did


end up as


?????

...What if you technically started at a 1,000 GP. Does that we get free GP to match that 1,500 new base or wut?

>We are talking about it
>This is where we are now

>BUT HOW DARE YOU GUYS JUST POST HERE, IN A DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS VERY TOPIC WITH SOMEONE WHO'S CLEARLY INTERESTED IN THE PROGRESS OF THIS DEBATE?!!?!?!!?!1?!1?!?

C'mon, Kyousuke. I used to think you were smart or something.

yes

brianna you're still confusing "this is what we're discussing" with "these are the changes we've implemented", that's not how this works

here, let me demonstrate:

you've discussed this application process change, wiggled some numbers around until you reached a satisfactory situation model and then implemented it

notice how there are two distinct phases: discussion and implementation

starting base gp didn't suddenly become 1,500 because tokiyo made a thread in staffland about maybe changing it, it became 1,500 the moment the change was publicized

I'm asking for consistency here and finding none

Sweet! Time to go make my first Master Requests and to upgrade some skills. XD

I do, and this is roughly what came up when we talked about this more recently.

So, in the interests of transparency, the 'current' setup is mostly to streamline the process.

The problem is this

1) We give people 500 increase to base without subjecting it to normal standards, but we still subject the Prestige Request itself to standards.

2) If we let people just ask for whatever, the process will be slowed by the back and forth and what's very likely to wind up happening is that we're probably just going to either be giving them 500, or giving them a value we determine anyway.

Therefore, we could absolutely solve this by having a milestone request before hand, however, what is likely to make the best sense (or at least it does as I type this) is to assign it a value as part of the rank-up request process, that way it can take into account the feedback from the whole panel rather than the 1 guy or gal doing to the Request.

How do you feel about that?

Alternatively, none of the above, rank-up GP is dropped entirely and you are left completely to your own milestones. Which then introduces the quirk Bri mentioned where people rename their request after approval and change nothing.

I'm not actually here to argue for one way or another, I'm interested in progress because the way it is right this second strikes me as extremely counterintuitive and I'd like to know how I should approach my final milestone because it's all very hazy at the moment and the one person I expected to have a quick and easy answer as she usually does seems unable, or perhaps unwilling to give me one

If I were to argue for one solution or the other, I'd tell you what I told Tova the other night (though in more concise terms):

I very much like what Base GP has evolved into since its inception. Using it as a general indication of where your character's story is was a stroke of genius on Brianna's part. I feel it should be handled in much the same way it is now, which is to say an iterative increase as a result of milestones that are anchored in the general idea of "how much progress since your last milestone when framed in the scale we have defined".

Prestige Bonus has always struck me as being a kind of thank you to the player that earns it, a sign of appreciation that they have stuck around and enriched the world they play in (as is required of characters who reach those levels). It was called bonus for a reason. Maybe, as a bonus, it's too high. Maybe it's not high enough. What's an appropriate way to reward the loyalty in taking a character that far and touching the world around them in such a degree? From a less gushy perspective, the bonus reflects a more absolute look at the character--"You've done some truly great (or terrible) things, and that deserves a a significant symbol of appreciation."

Conveniently, this fits into the existing scale as it stands now: If the late 4,000 mark is when you should "start considering what you’re going to do for prestige", I'd say maybe you're at 5,000 and you prestige and suddenly you're 500 away from 6k, which the scale indicates as Post-Prestige time?

I don't know about you but I can't say I feel the leap from Vaizard to Transcendental is 500 Base. Feels like it should be a tad more, but then I don't exactly stick to that particular scale myself.

So no, I don't think the bonuses should be treated as Base, which leaves two options as far as I'm concerned: they go entirely, or they stay, maybe get tweaked a little, and they aren't counted toward Base.

I had this talk with Kyousuke myself, yesterday.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure if it's really perceived or even useful as a "thank you". I'm simply not convinced that it's relevant, that players see it that way, or that they'd up and leave for somewhere else even if they did.

This doesn't mean we should take it away.

Remember that, on Bleach Gotei, having more GP means having more agency as a player--a summation of the purpose of GP phrased perfectly by Kyousuke here. And in general, I'd say greater agency is a good thing. Awarding GP is, therefore, awarding more agency to a well-performing player. A flat bonus for Prestige and Transcendence seems to fit in with the fact that the classes exist at all as a place for high-performing players to reach.

They've done a good enough job for it, I'd say.

I'd just move it to Earned and be done with it.

If I recall correctly, it was Colin's idea to put Prestige and Post-Prestige rewards into a person's base GP. Something about "keeping people from exploiting the system", if my memory serves me right.

I could be wrong, of course. I don't have access to the topic where the change was first discussed, though I know it is in staff land SOMEWHERE...

It was something like that. But we're not pretending to be a video game anymore, so our only concern needs to be "does this cause GP to flow too fast or too slowly at the wrong places"?

Given that this benefit only applies to Prestige or Transcendental characters and the players behind them, you can understand if I'm not too concerned about giving those people additional agency as players. At this point, they're obviously players of note and achievement with, hopefully, even more potential.

Arming them to put that further to work can't be anything but good.

Oh no, I fully agree- just trying to add some relevant information to the discussion.