Post by Shun Minamoto on Mar 16, 2015 20:50:25 GMT -5
I will personally say that I'm hestitant on requiring any sort of approval for techniques and such.
If I want my sword to sparkle when I swing or I want my wings to be extra feathery when I fly I really don't feel a need to require that you guys get things approved.
However, keeping people on to be there to moderate fights (when necessary) is a good precaution. I don't think we ever actually used that in any sort of serious sense, with a single exception. That said, even just a person people go to for an outside opinion is something I think is extremely valuable.
Moreover, I did a lot of research on how a lot of other communities where combat is a core theme do things. They employ similar precautions, but never full-fledged discussions. With an interview with the people behind Mizahar (a big fantasy-themed community), they had the following to say.
"You'll never have a system that everyone agrees on, that settles their disputes, because people are always going to be wary of rules written by someone other than themselves."
People solve disputes between people. As rare as it is here on Bleach Gotei--you guys seriously rock, let history itself back that one up--I think it's still a prudent sort of thing to offer.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 20:52:06 GMT -5
I will personally say that I'm hestitant on requiring any sort of approval for techniques and such.
If I want my sword to sparkle when I swing or I want my wings to be extra feathery when I fly I really don't feel a need to require that you guys get things approved.
However, keeping people on to be there to moderate fights (when necessary) is a good precaution. I don't think we ever actually used that in any sort of serious sense, with a single exception. That said, even just a person people go to for an outside opinion is something I think is extremely valuable.
But isn't this the same attitude that led to the problematic snowflake/non lore fitting mortals? (I'm so not being snarky btw, I only put this here because I'm constantly worried about being misunderstood haha)
When you let people carte blanche interject into a world their own thoughts and beliefs, it'll inevitably bring into conflict with other peoples visions of it. Which is presumably the issue with mortals.
Techniques don't actually do anything now. They're just a part of fighting, manga-style. In fact, techniques in general are more something you'd see in Naruto than in Bleach; in Bleach people simply use whatever power their spirit grants them. Sometimes they use those powers in a certain way, but Gin shooting Shinsou through his haori isn't exactly a technique.
In the same vein, now you don't need to have to make a technique to shoot fireballs if your Zanpakutō controls fire. Now you just
Post by Shun Minamoto on Mar 16, 2015 20:57:12 GMT -5
You make a very solid point, Jian, but right now here's where it differs for me.
Letting people freely play characters that'll be at a disadvantage, without a warning sign, is a bad decision. That's literally their entire character.
It's not a matter of people being able to freely inject their ideas and beliefs into the world. In fact, I'm fine with that--those things will sink or swim on their merit and merit alone. My method of creating Vaizards as Tova was one such example. I pioneered a new, non-canon way of doing it. People latched onto it. I've introduced many other things that haven't panned out that well.
A technique is just that. It no longer needs to be weighed down by needing to be mechanically viable and fair, making its impact effectively weightless since there's no investment. They can come and go with the pitter-patter of keys on a keyboard.
Unless I'm missing something? I don't want to unknowingly talk past you.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 21:01:01 GMT -5
Techniques don't actually do anything now. They're just a part of fighting, manga-style. In fact, techniques in general are more something you'd see in Naruto than in Bleach; in Bleach people simply use whatever power their spirit grants them. Sometimes they use those powers in a certain way, but Gin shooting Shinsou through his haori isn't exactly a technique.
In the same vein, now you don't need to have to make a technique to shoot fireballs if your Zanpakutō controls fire. Now you just
shoot
fire
Riight, but mechanics aren't the issue with mortals, its flavor and the way they have changed the landscape of the setting. Presuming of course.
You make a very solid point, Jian, but right now here's where it differs for me.
Letting people freely play characters that'll be at a disadvantage, without a warning sign, is a bad decision. That's literally their entire character.
It's not a matter of people being able to freely inject their ideas and beliefs into the world. In fact, I'm fine with that--those things will sink or swim on their merit and merit alone. My method of creating Vaizards as Tova was one such example. I pioneered a new, non-canon way of doing it. People latched onto it. I've introduced many other things that haven't panned out that well.
A technique is just that. It no longer needs to be weighed down by needing to be mechanically viable and fair, making its impact effectively weightless since there's no investment. They can come and go with the pitter-patter of keys on a keyboard.
Unless I'm missing something? I don't want to unknowingly talk past you.
That makes absolute sense, but if I say my power lets me turn into a bat and fly around and I'm basically a vampire, I mean, we're treading the same issue that we have with mortals of it not making sense for bleach. I'm operating on the assumption it's the non-lore fitting nature of mortals that has drawn the focus back to Shinigami/Quincy/Hollow, so please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I think a lot of shit can be solved real quick by changing the name from Minor Races to Mortals and Misc. Or something like that.
Seconded. I like Misc Races frankly. Minor is denigrating no matter how you swing it.
The issue with mortals is the complete and total lack of direction or any sort of solid connection to the world of Bleach, which is a big deal given that you're currently posting on www.bleach-gotei.com
As far as "minor races" go
You don't, by any chance, have a tumblr account, do you?
Post by Shun Minamoto on Mar 16, 2015 21:05:27 GMT -5
Minor can be interpreted that way. I think Misc. is very unclean and "Other" struck me as...well.. bad
To address the above, the reason we want people to focus on the Bleach parts of the Bleach setting is simply because those parts function the best. As many of us are very much aware, Mortals have a hard time in the Bleach world because they have no raison d'etre, which I speak on at length in the announcement. They're very disconnected and were never meant to be an important part of the setting. We see the results of that scattered through this community's history.
The issue was never the introduction of things that don't make sense in the Bleach world. That might be my personal pet peeve--which gets no shortage of laughs out of you folks--but it's not a problem. Nor do Mortals have a monopoly on that: Like I said, I did it with Tova. Our lovely Lyv's entire character is also a Bleach impossibility, yet we adore her and she's been very successful.
So fear not, it was never people doing things outside of the setting that was the problem. In fact, great things can come of it! ...And then there's the not-so-great things, I do. But hey, a guy can't win them all.
The words warning signs keeps being thrown up. There's a difference between letting someone know mortals are harder to play, and actively steering them away from the category. You want to warn people? Slap a black diamond on that trail and call it a day. What it sounds like you're doing is putting a mountie at the entrance to the trail. And he'll only let you pass if you can make him laugh or slip him a five.
This is a writing site for pete's sake people. Take a step back and have a good look at your wording. xp
Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 21:06:45 GMT -5
The issue with mortals is the complete and total lack of direction or any sort of solid connection to the world of Bleach, which is a big deal given that you're currently posting on www.bleach-gotei.com
As far as "minor races" go
You don't, by any chance, have a tumblr account, do you?
haha, you're PRECIOUS :3
How is roleplaying on a roleplaying site with people fighting hollows and meeting shinigami and debating balance with a quincy not participating on www.bleach-gotei.com?
Tova, it looks less like you're trying to advertise for other races and more like you really don't want Mortals around. Almost as if you're jarring people up just to get em nice and angry for when Shun invades Earth to oppress Humanity =P
Post by Jian Oreachi on Mar 16, 2015 21:10:25 GMT -5
Minor can be interpreted that way. I think Misc. is very unclean and "Other" struck me as...well.. bad
To address the above, the reason we want people to focus on the Bleach parts of the Bleach setting is simply because those parts function the best. As many of us are very much aware, Mortals have a hard time in the Bleach world because they have no raison d'etre, which I speak on at length in the announcement. They're very disconnected and were never meant to be an important part of the setting. We see the results of that scattered through this community's history.
The issue was never the introduction of things that don't make sense in the Bleach world. That might be my personal pet peeve--which gets no shortage of laughs out of you folks--but it's not a problem. Nor do Mortals have a monopoly on that: Like I said, I did it with Tova. Our lovely Lyv's entire character is also a Bleach impossibility, yet we adore her and she's been very successful.
So fear not, it was never people doing things outside of the setting that was the problem. In fact, great things can come of it! ...And then there's the not-so-great things, I do. But hey, a guy can't win them all.
I challenge this, I accept that mortals are for the large part, self contained, tend towards the unrelated.
I further will go on to say that mortals house a much greater potential for cool stories about people coming in to power and finding out how and what it means to use it
to punch hollows, of course.
But to explore to cooler less explored parts that Shinigami can't, that Quincy can't, that Hollows can't.
I accept why they are a problem, but. I guess I can only hope to demonstrate otherwise.
Post by Shun Minamoto on Mar 16, 2015 21:10:41 GMT -5
Well, see, Adimus, that's the problem there.
If I wanted Mortals gone, who'd be left to oppress?
Hollows? The Shinigami Master Race did that already, got boring.
The dictator in me couldn't bear to part with a mass of people I have yet to subjugate! Glorious Fascism 101.
The issue, though, with labeling them just Mortals is that it's wrong.
Really, guys, it is just a label. By leaving it just "Mortals" you give the immediate first impression that it's only that. People don't read Shinigami and think "Oh I bet I'll find humans in that usergroup". Just doesn't happen. That's why a change in label is necessary.
Post by Heero Villenn on Mar 16, 2015 21:11:01 GMT -5
I'm kind of cool about this (partially because I left my mortal and made a shinigami instead) but mechanics are kind of where things get questionable for me.
I am ecstatic that I don't have to run around trying to figure out how to properly mechanize things but a huge thing in my mind that mechanics existed was to prevent OP nonsense from power players or at least mitigate it.
When it comes to wording, some of us aren't always the best. We don't have a good way to explain how were attacking or what we're trying to do. That's what mechanics provided for my character and was the only reason I did everything I could to try and figure it out, because it helped in multiple ways (although sometimes mechanics get ridiculous). I know that they are now optional so still usable but their also somewhat complicated with a lot of things intertwining together and none of us use it everyday so we forget.
I'm starting to ramble and make a jumbled mess of things so I'll just ask blunt and straight forward questions:
1. Will techniques still be a part of BG as a whole? Or will it just be stats and skills? This gets really weird especially when we get into things like kido because some people like making customized kido and at some point there's got to be a limit somewhere right?
2. Will the basic mechanics still exist as a whole? The skill checks, the tiers, all those things that prevent my character from ripping a transcendent an ew asshole that aren't stats in general? How much of the basic mechanics stuff is going to stick around? I understand dumping advanced stuff because personally, and I'm guessing a lot of others, have jobs and school and lives and not enough time to learn all of it(I get confused with some of the basic stuff sometimes).
3. This is an example more than a question: If me and another player are having a 'battle' and have a disagreement as to what happens this is where mechanics can save people a lot of stupid spats. I don't battle much, if at all, however I am aware that there will be points in which I do. As a shinigami its my job to find a way to kill arrancars and hollows. I just feel like a lot of unnecessary drama is going to come out of this at some point if to much of the mechanics is dropped.