It's sad when hollow players used to joke my character Vic was more hollow than their character. Of course it was pretty true. I mean even now despite the direction I'm taking her Vic would still rather crush a hollows skull than try and convince it not to prey on humans or plus souls.
Last Edit: Jun 18, 2016 18:19:01 GMT -5 by Victoria
That's because Vic should be a Hollow and you're literally proving to everyone why that choice was a bad idea by not doing anything aside from be good LT material (so go you!)
Motonabe Kai: Well let me be Titus for a second, "Y u no lol?" "Hey you, out there all alone..." Avatar by Cheesewoo. He does commissions! Flick him a PM on Deviantart.
Sure, when Weylin loses his hold on funds he can move over and allow the execution of shinigami as their gloves come off. But again, that's just a dream when Quincy can become relevant and cannot be ignored again!
Post by Niji Amidasu on Jun 18, 2016 18:28:51 GMT -5
counterpoints: 1. not even all the espada actually took part in the siege, this speaks volumes about their dedication 2. we've had some pretty fucking awful leaders on the shinigami side too 3. do you even have espada nowadays?
2. I've read about that vaguely.
3. I don't think we do.
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That's super boring, though. The other races being so marginalized that this site might as well be "Hey! This is a Bleach Game, but only Shini are playable!" From how you sell the Shini. And that takes a lot of fun out of things. And everyone playing Shini, with their plusses brought up all over the place, but the other races put down. It takes away from potential conflict. And really sucks.
And yeah, on the show 99% of Arrancar and 100% of Hollows wanted to eat your face off and desecrate your soul. but fuck, there were Arrancar that weren't, or were actually decent souls. Not just Nell either. But Shini being the Master race, is something that does suck. In the Show it was Humans (Fullbringers, Bounts, Quincy) that were the tipping point in conflicts. Followed closely by Shin, with the Hollow Breeds killing Shini by the droves off screen, or when Aizen got involved. But still had power in numbers (and constantly active powers).
The Shini master race thing is just boring. And takes away from other potential races that could be pretty freaking awesome. I know I personally wouldn't like to be a site without the option to be a race other than Shini for the rest of my time on the site. All because the other ones die off because of the whole "Shini are the master race" line of thought.
Post by Hazuki Tsukimiya on Jun 18, 2016 18:35:08 GMT -5
well, sometimes reality is boring
I'm certainly not about to lie to new players if they ask me what the pros and cons of each race are from where I'm standing
then of course there's the issue that justin brings up with death on a site like this:
if your entire existence revolves around killing and eating, and death is something we try to avoid, why the fuck would you want to play a hollow-breed?
At what point does it become unreasonable to keep giving concessions to a race that essentially stands at odds with the spirit of the site? Sooner or later you've got to buckle down and go "sorry, that's how it is and this is what's on offer, the choice is yours"
And that's the problem, really: people make their choice, and more often than not the choice they make is Shinigami
would you deny them that choice?
There is no nation of you, there is no nation of me Our only nation lives in lucid dreams Lucid dreams, I’m livin’ in lucid dreams I’m livin’ on shortwave streams tonight
I'm certainly not about to lie to new players if they ask me what the pros and cons of each race are from where I'm standing
then of course there's the issue that justin brings up with death on a site like this:
if your entire existence revolves around killing and eating, and death is something we try to avoid, why the fuck would you want to play a hollow-breed?
At what point does it become unreasonable to keep giving concessions to a race that essentially stands at odds with the spirit of the site? Sooner or later you've got to buckle down and go "sorry, that's how it is and this is what's on offer, the choice is yours"
And that's the problem, really: people make their choice, and more often than not the choice they make is Shinigami
would you deny them that choice?
Hollows are a viable race. And while I wouldn't deny them. I wouldn't be actively pushing the whole "My race is the master race, all others are horrible choices". Either. Coloring a choice one way is the same thing as denying them the choice of others. Even if not as direct about it.
And Killing and eating isn't all of what their race revolves around. Sure they kill and eat souls (that part is a core thing about them). But as the guide points out, that's not what they are all about. It's a part of them yes. But even in the show you had those who weren't anywhere defined by that. So saying "All of X is X, because they do Y" is really kinda dumb. Especially when the show itself contradicts that.
Then you have the fact that over a Billions Souls die a year. Less in the past generations (fewer lives). But with those many souls, types of powers and personalities (Which again I bring up, there were those in the cannonical show that weren't 100% defined by hunger). That at least 1% of them would be in the spirit of this site. Without going Arrancar.
But even then shooting down all the other races just for not being the one you like. Not cool.
Edit:
Personally. I like variety, and different choices. And more than likely might end up playing all the races, Heck I originally wanted to be human so I could go either Shini or Hollow organically. But I don't like the whole "Master Race" Approach to things. I think that the variety should be brought out, and nurtured. Rather than razed to the ground and curb stomped to oblivion.
Last Edit: Jun 18, 2016 19:00:18 GMT -5 by Niji Amidasu
Post by Hazuki Tsukimiya on Jun 18, 2016 19:14:33 GMT -5
if you say they're viable and use a guide titus wrote as evidence then heh I'm sure they're viable
also largely irrelevant but worth pointing out:
>billions die every year
HAHAHHAHA you're wrong by more than an order of magnitude please stop you're killing me
in any case, my original point still stands, as it remains unaddressed: the races are presented as-is, and the final choice remains squarely with the player who decides to sign up and create a character
it's really not my fault that the hollow-breeds can't keep people interested
this is what equal footing results in, and I'm not about to try to tamper with it
There is no nation of you, there is no nation of me Our only nation lives in lucid dreams Lucid dreams, I’m livin’ in lucid dreams I’m livin’ on shortwave streams tonight
Post by Niji Amidasu on Jun 18, 2016 19:59:03 GMT -5
And I wasn't just talking about Hollow Breeds. As for death. Fine 56 million deaths / year. 1.8 per second. In the show you had a vast majority that weren't consumed by hunger, just their inner nature. And a vast amount of them were dicks. Hollows you had several that weren't consumed with eating souls, or eating was secondary to them doing whatever the heck they felt like doing. Heck one even went so far as to shove a soul of a child into a bird. Then only eat those he killed that tried helping the boy. Making a game out of it.
Of course good Hollows aren't what's in question, the thing is that the show had those who weren't mindless beasts. They could think, plan, and work towards a goal. Or only eat a specific type of individual.
As for a guide written by Titus. Name one other character that knows about playing their race like he does? Or has specialized as deeply in that race as he has. And have them say that Titus doesn't know what he's talking about. Otherwise it's the best thing for people looking to play as Hollow and this site needed it. Heck, there's not a single page spouting any of the good or bad of the races. Or a good actual guide for new players wanting an unbiased look at things.
My problem isn't Hollow hate. I talk alot about them because I find them interesting. No my problem is that Fullbringers disappeared giving way to Variants that need to be requested before playing and Quincy. Quincy I don't really get what their "Power" is. Since it's not really gotten into, and it's hard to think of Quincy that aren't bow shooters without thinking of Steinritter who's powers are OP as heck. Then you have Hollows which get a lot of flak.
Personally I'm starting Shini, not because "they're the master race", but because most of the players that have been on a while are Shini, and the person who's mentoring me suggested it. So it's a good starting race. Do I think Shini are almighty end all characters? No. But does that mean I think that they others aren't viable? Of course not. Every race has it's good and bad, Hollows just get more over emphasis on the bad. And humans get shafted for being squishy mortals.
Post by Hazuki Tsukimiya on Jun 18, 2016 20:06:14 GMT -5
A number of names (Tova, et al) leap readily to mind and I'm left wondering if Titus ever even achieved prestige as I honestly don't remember
But I'm honestly having trouble discerning your point, could you please reiterate it concisely?
There is no nation of you, there is no nation of me Our only nation lives in lucid dreams Lucid dreams, I’m livin’ in lucid dreams I’m livin’ on shortwave streams tonight
My problem isn't Hollow hate. I talk alot about them because I find them interesting. No my problem is that Fullbringers disappeared giving way to Variants that need to be requested before playing and Quincy. Quincy I don't really get what their "Power" is. Since it's not really gotten into, and it's hard to think of Quincy that aren't bow shooters without thinking of Steinritter who's powers are OP as heck. Then you have Hollows which get a lot of flak.
I've got this, I think.
1. Fullbringers didn't disappear. Variants cover a wide range of things; Fullbringer has its own definition and example right there in the section, as does Spiritually Aware Mortal/Spiritualist. Those are the two 'main' types of Variant with some other oddity options available if you don't want to play a human and have a good enough story as to fit into the 'verse.
2. Variants became a 'need to request' because, quite frankly and to be blunt; most people don't fucking understand how difficult it is to play one. They see a bunch of green names and think "Oh hey this'll be easy" and then abandon/get disheartened not even 60 days into it. This race, as much as I personally enjoy playing them, fucking sucks in several ways I've started compiling into a "How (Not) to Variant" guide and staff got sick of the rush of players making and abandoning it. So, yes. They upped the difficulty further and have you sitting there going, "Look. Do you genuinely need this character to be a Variant or can it work as a Quincy, Hollow, or Shinigami?" Is it a deterrent? Yes; it takes a very special kind of masochist to deal with the bullshit that comes with the green name and the will to endure said bullshit while still progressing forward/soldiering on. They also became 'request only' because we had a disturbing lack of Hollow and Quincy that we needed to nudge people into the more 'showy' races to try and balance shit out.
3. Quincy aren't that hard to decipher. You have a human being with soul destroying powers in combination with being a fucking anomaly/abomination who is capable of single handedly fucking the cycle over and are a genuine threat to the balance. Rather than conjure power from within your soul-- something you usually lack by nature of what you are-- you're pulling from the ambient spiritual energy in the world around you to form your weapon/fuel your powers, and generally fuck shit up. Each Quincy's "power" is unique to them, as is their weapon-- though due to their history/sensitivity to Hollow energy, you tend to want to not go fisticuffs.
4. Hollow breeds are given a lot of shit because of how difficult, in a sense, they are to understand and play. You're a villain. You're not there to be playing patty-cake with the other races and be the Arrancar/Hollow of Friendship. You're a soul devouring, power desiring spirit who didn't get to fucking move on/get purified and thus that little nagging regret/impulse that fucked you over drives you towards yet another death. Most people are not comfortable tapping into the darker sides of the psyche (and I'm not even going to touch the whole Hollow/Arrancar = edgelord mentality that gets brought up at times) and thus try and find a way to work around that issue as a whole so they can establish friendships/relationships.
If you don't have it in you to be an antagonist and explore a lot of unpleasant themes? This is likely not the race for you.
The Shinigami don't keep people interested either, if that's your metric. There are just more people who go Shinigami, and less who go Hollow, so the effect is more pronounced. One only has to look at the vast collection of Shinigami who go inactive to see that.
Post by Hazuki Tsukimiya on Jun 18, 2016 20:22:40 GMT -5
sure, but shinigami can at least maintain critical mass, which the hollows can't and haven't really ever been able to
I'd much rather have one healthy race than two awful races, and it appears our new players agree with that sentiment
There is no nation of you, there is no nation of me Our only nation lives in lucid dreams Lucid dreams, I’m livin’ in lucid dreams I’m livin’ on shortwave streams tonight
Post by Niji Amidasu on Jun 18, 2016 20:24:02 GMT -5
A number of names (Tova, et al) leap readily to mind and I'm left wondering if Titus ever even achieved prestige as I honestly don't remember
But I'm honestly having trouble discerning your point, could you please reiterate it concisely?
Name a Hollow I meant one that would actually say, "Yeah Titus's guide is wrong, Hazuki's right." Otherwise, he's the best one we got, that at least is visible, well known, and known for playing Hollow. And his current one is going to be a Vasto Lordes soon. I think Arkhan was prestige as well (but that's Arrancar, don't know if you count that or not).
As for my point. I wasn't talking purely about Hollows as viable characters. Rather that the others aren't sold as viable either for one reason or another. There's no unbiased guide for players to review. And I personally find it a very droll idea that "only Shini are a viable character to play." It deadens creativity. Every race has its strengths and weaknesses, but asking around I mostly get a "Hell if I know". With most of the bad being said about the other races.
Personally, I find the idea of an all Shini site not only boring but understimulating. All the races coming together and interacting is what makes things fun.
And I had a point that all Hollows are mindless beast consumed by hunger / madness. Is contradicted in the show cannon. There are more than a few that can think, plan, and act out besides ravenous hunger in the show. Sure mostly it's predatory in nature, or for their own personal amusement. But it's a thing. And then we have Arrancar. Most of them were dicks, but most of them weren't hungry for souls on screen. And we even see Arrancar working alongside Shini.