Why are we suddenly searching for reasons to classify Variants as anything but Variants? Does that not further hurt the view of the race as a whole? It's unhealthy for the site. I just do not understand.
We're singing I believe that lovers should be chained together and thrown into a fire with their songs and letters, and left there to burn. Left there to burn in their arrogance.
A Plus is a specific term for a dead Mortal who has yet to let go of the World of the Living. The Naiads, as described in their concept page, are most certainly not that.
This.
Also, Kionchi has a very different layout for a character at his level.
I wrote up and submitted two waystone applications that probably took as many threads as a mastery to get those extra skill slots.
Admittedly, it gave me extra skill slots.
But, as Jian and I have discussed more than once, more skill slots does not make a stronger character, because we are capped by masteries and above 250 reiatsu those are all that decide the outcome of any battle crazy enough to actually care about skills/stats.
I mean lets face it: Custom Release Skill (Magic) is the only skill you need.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 21:23:29 GMT -5 by Kionchi
All "pure souls" are just Shinigami that have not yet manifested a Zanpakutou. They cannot be anything else, there is no other path to take.
Except the Naiads aren't going to be requesting Shikai or Bankai or performing kido any time soon, or, y'know, anything a Shinigami would do. It's almost as if they're going down a completely different path from their origin point.
I will grant you that some of them could, but not all of them will. Some of them could just as easily have powers identical, if not similar, to Hollow.... Like the variants. Variants have members that have Shinigami/Hollow-like powers too. They're variants because we can't put them in BOTH or NEITHER race.
If a person wants to make a Naiad only to become a shinigami, fine, they can go for it. Seems pointless, why not just MAKE a Shinigami, but I won't tell them no. But if they're gonna be doing things that are not at all like a Shinigami then they are not Shinigami, they have taken a different path and are thus different enough to not be called Shinigami. So they must be variants.
But again, we can't put them in both or neither, so where can they go? The race specifically changed (not made) to house races that can't be put in any other race.
If all of this is just because somebody who should be a variant wants to have the Shinigami color because variants get a bad wrap then can Bertolt have the hollow color? He pretty much lives in Las Noches.
Post by Shun Minamoto on Jun 28, 2016 21:26:41 GMT -5
Actually, let's talk about Munin.
Maybe Munin doesn't realize it, but I think he's a super imaginative and cool player.
But out of all the kinds of Variants you can make, an android might be one of the most disconnected from the setting.
Shit, how does he even have spiritual pressure if he's not a soul?
Doesn't make a lick of sense but I'd never tell the man he can't. I'm sure he's thought about this at least a bit, though, which is why I really like Munin as a player. Very thoughtful.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 21:28:17 GMT -5 by Shun Minamoto
Maybe Munin doesn't realize it, but I think he's a super imaginative and cool player.
But out of all the kinds of Variants you can make, an android might be one of the most disconnected from the setting.
Shit, how does he even have spiritual pressure if he's not a soul?
Doesn't make a lick of sense but I'd never tell the man he can't. I'm sure he's thought about this at least a bit, though, which is why I really like Munin as a player. Very thoughtful.
If you think Munin is just an android, your mistaken. I don't want to spoil his plot, heck I don't even know his plot 100%...
But basically, Kionchi found something in the trash and went "oh hey it reacts like a soul, let's give it legs". And an anti-hollow laser welding torch!
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 21:34:47 GMT -5 by Kionchi
Post by Miyuki Wakahisa on Jun 28, 2016 21:34:17 GMT -5
As I'm sure you guys have started to notice, I'm basically the spokesperson for our little ragtag team. Since I'm the ring leader I felt it pretty obvious for me to chime in and speak on behalf of the group.
The original plan was to, in fact, go green and even now there's a bit of a divide on this front. Some of us believe green is more fitting, though red won out. The reason behind this is because the creation of a Naiad is the creation of an entirely new, untouched soul. It's just like a mommy and a daddy giving birth, though our parents is murder and unfinished business. Honestly, at the end of the day we're more yellow than we are green, due to the Birthrights we have, but it doesn't really matter and the majority of us agreed to that.
Personally (and I emphasis personally, the way I look at variants is a very simple question: "Is there any logical way to fit this character into the afterlife? If no, they are a Variant." For our Naiads, we decided that they're no different than, say, Red (Mr. Skeletron), in that they are simply souls that haven't taken the traditional Shinigami path. Shinigami is not a career -- it's a race. Every single soul in the Rukongai -- from the Tiger people, to the Chair-Wielders -- are Shingami. The bar owners, the children, the creepy monsters out at in the forests. They are all pure souls -- Shinigami. Why? Because you look at their soul, they're all close enough to the pure soul concept. When you look at a Naiad, although a bit different, you will see it as a soul.
Ultimately, however, the color simply doesn't matter. We could be the color of vomit and it wouldn't make a difference. Your color is more of an OOC aspect than IC. No matter if we're red, green, or yellow, when you look at our souls, we look just like that: a soul created from a strange, new method. We do not affiliate with the Seireitei (most of us actually want to slaughter all the Shinigami), but we do not affiliate with the Karakura protection peoples (because we have no idea that's even a thing). We are simply who we are.
I believe a lot of the confusion comes from people associating a race with an affiliation, which is simply not the case. If it were, why is Takua yellow? Shouldn't he be green since he's been consistently aligning himself with Karakura? Or is he red because he's more like a Shinigami because of the Zanpakutou? The line between races is vague because it's purely out of character. The only difference it truly makes in character is same colored names are typically drawn to each by same color names. Though this is not always the case, see our example with Takua who I'm pretty sure has threaded with more Shinigami at this point.
The only reason our colors matter is because you make it matter with, honesty, racism. You see red and go "Filthy Shinigami" when we are not, in fact, Shinigami. Neither is Tomie, or Red. Yet, you look at Munin and don't think for a second "Filthy Shinigami" even though he is literally that. Despite in character actions, it's those assumptions that I think are really coloring (ba dum tssk) opinions here. My goal is to shatter that mold and remind people that you can be whatever you want and don't have to think that your race automatically files you into a certain corner.
BG aims for player creativity at the end of the day. We thrive on ideas like the Naiads. Don't let something as silly as the hue of our names make you think we're anything more or less than we are.
If any of you are taking a personal offense to this, please contact me and I'll do my best to convey the reasoning and hopefully clear things up. I'll be the first to say that, while we all did eventually agree to go red, it was my call at the end of the day.
But I mean, hey, if those players want to shoot themselves in the face by going green, their prerogative.
yikes
Every Prestige Variant in history has, at least, been something that actually exists in Bleach: A human
You and Kireon, wisely, took it a bit farther and went Shinigami in your own, strange way.
Never in Bleach Gotei history has a completely unprecedented Variant reached even Second Release. Even just being a human of some flavor is difficult and Variants are, over all, in the words of Kireon, extremely difficult.
Statistically, it's fair of me to say that a decision to take a completely unprecedented concept and wave the Variant flag is akin to project suicide.
If they're vague and aren't helping then do away with them, remove race colors. Don't ADD to the muggy fuckery by doing this crap.
We have race colors to distinguish character groups from other character groups. Blurring the lines like this is ridiculous. A Naiad, as you guys yourself state in your race information, could have powers that stem from Hollow, Shinigami, Mortal, any race that has been involved in a great tragedy. Since we cannot fit each Naiad into all races, we must put them into the race SPECIFICALLY FOR characters that cannot go in any or all races.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Jun 28, 2016 21:49:07 GMT -5
Absolutely, but associating it with the color is something I don't follow, it's really the premise alone, which is unchanging in this case. The Naiads are Naiads.
Unless the premise of this discussion is that this is about more than just the color of their text which, considering the heat of this discussion, I was sure it must but until I remember this is BG where colors are hella serious business.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 21:49:16 GMT -5 by Jian Oreachi
My first Bleach site I played a shinigami who was a hengeyokai (kitsune). Cringy shit. How did I pull it off? I left it vague as fuck. Plenty of people in the Fourth had random "animal parts", like in the manga. So I left his origin vague enough that there was a chance he was a human soul abducted by a powerful hollow named Inari who told him he was a kitsune! What happened? After four years on the site, we wound up with five other Hengeyokai, each with backstories just as vague, and got together and applied to become our own race.
Five years after the site died? Kubo made us canon in the Komamura backstory!
Post by Shun Minamoto on Jun 28, 2016 21:56:01 GMT -5
Perception matters.
Many players -- not all -- look at colors to get an initial idea of things, a first impression. If I created something that could fit into the Variant label, but also worked under one of the actual labels, I'd go with one of those over Variant any day because of the fact of perception.
And we all know that first impressions matter.
Also this just in
the only Transcendental to ever come from a Variant -- Hope -- retconned their history into a Quincy when they went Broken
Post by Miyuki Wakahisa on Jun 28, 2016 21:57:11 GMT -5
Alright, perhaps I should put this another way.
After a long, and still ongoing discussion, as the leader of the group I made the call to make us red so that the race can have the easiest start into the community. Whether it was wrong or right, I can't tell yet. Regardless of the decision, whatever color we are now is temporary. I fully intend to make a very strong push to break away from whatever casting you put us in and turn it a few shades closer to Purple.
Hell, make our color rotate every day for all I care. Take away the color entirely. The point I'm making is you guys are making a problem when there is none. Let us do us and, if you're so inclined, make a Naiad yourself and prove to us that we should have been green. This is a very open race and it's quite easy to make a character -- especially if you've played a Shinigami or Arrancar before. Just because the Wanderers went Red doesn't mean those born from the Quincy culling will be.
You make your character the way you want to. I'm never, ever going to force anything as silly as a color down your throat. End of story.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Jun 28, 2016 21:57:56 GMT -5
since variants aren't variations that don't quite fit elsewhere, I move we rename them 'mortals and friends' or, until we find something that classifies 'mortals and munin, but not the quincy'
As I'm sure you guys have started to notice, I'm basically the spokesperson for our little ragtag team. Since I'm the ring leader I felt it pretty obvious for me to chime in and speak on behalf of the group.
The original plan was to, in fact, go green and even now there's a bit of a divide on this front. Some of us believe green is more fitting, though red won out. The reason behind this is because the creation of a Naiad is the creation of an entirely new, untouched soul. It's just like a mommy and a daddy giving birth, though our parents is murder and unfinished business. Honestly, at the end of the day we're more yellow than we are green, due to the Birthrights we have, but it doesn't really matter and the majority of us agreed to that.
Personally (and I emphasis personally, the way I look at variants is a very simple question: "Is there any logical way to fit this character into the afterlife? If no, they are a Variant." For our Naiads, we decided that they're no different than, say, Red (Mr. Skeletron), in that they are simply souls that haven't taken the traditional Shinigami path. Shinigami is not a career -- it's a race. Every single soul in the Rukongai -- from the Tiger people, to the Chair-Wielders -- are Shingami. The bar owners, the children, the creepy monsters out at in the forests. They are all pure souls -- Shinigami. Why? Because you look at their soul, they're all close enough to the pure soul concept. When you look at a Naiad, although a bit different, you will see it as a soul.
Ultimately, however, the color simply doesn't matter. We could be the color of vomit and it wouldn't make a difference. Your color is more of an OOC aspect than IC. No matter if we're red, green, or yellow, when you look at our souls, we look just like that: a soul created from a strange, new method. We do not affiliate with the Seireitei (most of us actually want to slaughter all the Shinigami), but we do not affiliate with the Karakura protection peoples (because we have no idea that's even a thing). We are simply who we are.
I believe a lot of the confusion comes from people associating a race with an affiliation, which is simply not the case. If it were, why is Takua yellow? Shouldn't he be green since he's been consistently aligning himself with Karakura? Or is he red because he's more like a Shinigami because of the Zanpakutou? The line between races is vague because it's purely out of character. The only difference it truly makes in character is same colored names are typically drawn to each by same color names. Though this is not always the case, see our example with Takua who I'm pretty sure has threaded with more Shinigami at this point.
The only reason our colors matter is because you make it matter with, honesty, racism. You see red and go "Filthy Shinigami" when we are not, in fact, Shinigami. Neither is Tomie, or Red. Yet, you look at Munin and don't think for a second "Filthy Shinigami" even though he is literally that. Despite in character actions, it's those assumptions that I think are really coloring (ba dum tssk) opinions here. My goal is to shatter that mold and remind people that you can be whatever you want and don't have to think that your race automatically files you into a certain corner.
BG aims for player creativity at the end of the day. We thrive on ideas like the Naiads. Don't let something as silly as the hue of our names make you think we're anything more or less than we are.
If any of you are taking a personal offense to this, please contact me and I'll do my best to convey the reasoning and hopefully clear things up. I'll be the first to say that, while we all did eventually agree to go red, it was my call at the end of the day.
Thanks for hearing me out!
Hey, Miyuki. I also appreciate your contribution here, and the conversation in private.
I can't, in any right mindset or vein of opinion, disagree with your view as the leader to color your group as green. Whether I'm personally happy with that decision or not it is, as everyone has very helpfully been reminding me throughout this thread and on Discord, ultimately your (and that of the few in your group who agreed's) decision. I respect that. And while I know you nor anyone else has argued this front, I still feel like I had my right here to express my opinion on the matter: that is, being against it.
I would hardly force anything on anyone. That is nowhere near the kind of person I am. Yet, I feel like this also hurts the site as a whole a little? People keep saying color doesn't matter - but it does! You even expressed that in your own post, but you got it backwards. Very rarely is anyone going "filthy Shinigami" - you as well as and the rest of, well, everyone know that it's "filthy Variant". That's the only racegroup with a strong stigma against them, and it is being continually reinforced. I don't think that's right. The active Variant players are annoyed and unhappy with that view more than anyone; I share only the fraction of their sentiment that I can as someone not involved in that struggle.
I wouldn't say I take personal offense, just a degree of disappointment. It is a subject of "racism" - against our green friends, not the other way around. Pushing that further so you don't have to face the issue doesn't help it; it still exists. It just makes it worse for future references.
Thanks for hearing me out, as well.
We're singing I believe that lovers should be chained together and thrown into a fire with their songs and letters, and left there to burn. Left there to burn in their arrogance.
since variants aren't variations that don't quite fit elsewhere, I move we rename them 'mortals and friends' or, until we find something that classifies 'mortals and munin, but not the quincy'