Post by Consequence on Jun 28, 2016 22:21:36 GMT -5
Racial colors do things other than just represent 'race'. They denote the difference between an active character and an inactive one. Denote between a normal class player, a Prestige, and a Post-Prestige. They also, yes, more or less represent a race.
They offer a sense of identity that is related to the concept. That's valuable regardless of any discussions relating to who gets what. Naiads had a discussion and elected to identify as red, with designs on their own color eventually. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Absolutely, but associating it with the color is something I don't follow, it's really the premise alone, which is unchanging in this case. The Naiads are Naiads.
Unless the premise of this discussion is that this is about more than just the color of their text which, considering the heat of this discussion, I was sure it must but until I remember this is BG where colors are hella serious business.
Invalidating the discussion by saying "colors shouldn't be a big deal" while every other post is talking about why it's more important that they're RED than GREEN is really... weird. This wouldn't be a discussion at all if colors didn't hold some sense of importance.
I didn't make my point clearly:
colors shouldn't be a big deal, nor should this whole race supremacy shit, I am flabbergasted that it is, not invalidating your discussion, it's worthwhile to address how bizarre a race is being colored red for political reasons instead of merely organizational/suitability ones.
Variants are stigmatized, rightfully so, because they are inherently inferior. And they're inferior because they're inherently more difficult to play, with no objective benefit in return -- they're still just characters and follow the same rules.
The most successful Variants are those who recognize this difficulty, the source of this stigma, and power through anyway. That's why they're there but exist with a warning, a speedbump: the Variant Request.
inb4 affirmative action for Variants
playing a variant has been supremely rewarding, the blank space has allowed me to create my own shit from a practically blank canvas, it provides me a place to make something where there is very little. the story would defs not have worked elsewhere.
Making fun of a legitimate discussion by changing unrelated names to green and posting passive aggressive chides doesn't add any resolution to this matter.
This is an actual topic focusing on an actual issue.
We're singing I believe that lovers should be chained together and thrown into a fire with their songs and letters, and left there to burn. Left there to burn in their arrogance.
I wasn't trying to add another stressor to anyone lives. I spoke on behalf of those stressed and my own views. I'm aware that I can't change any minds by this point - but that doesn't invalidate anything expressed here.
There's a strong enough stigma against Variant already, it still really sucks, it's going to keep existing and this didn't help it any.
Then don't post - this isn't a contribution to the discussion.
I think my point is why do you care so much what another set of characters are doing, does it hurt you? If they and staff agree on something so petty as name color (which at 3 pages is silly) who cares.
I wasn't trying to add another stressor to anyone lives. I spoke on behalf of those stressed and my own views. I'm aware that I can't change any minds by this point - but that doesn't invalidate anything expressed here.
There's a strong enough stigma against Variant already, it still really sucks, it's going to keep existing and this didn't help it any.
I agree, in a way. This DIDN'T help the weird, crappy aura around "Variant."
But the answer to helping players organize their race isn't to shoehorn in a bunch of people who don't fit, and who they won't really be able to thread with. (That's what the color should do, early on, in my humble opinion. It should highlight "hey, kids. Here are your people.")
In fact, it'd be really hard to help Variants with that at all, since they're a catch-all from all over the place.
It's almost like
humans
should have stayed their own
organized color.
And "variants" could have been the color of the race they wanted.
prepostnotedit: inb4 "Pfffaahahahahahaahaha 'organized' please love me"
Can I actually be changed to green then? If you're doing it for shits and gigs. Can you legitimately change my colour.
First thing is that ^.
Second is to stop shitposting this is a serious (I know, shocking) discussion and memes and shit just draw away from it.
Third. Whoever's changing the avatars and user groups owes Cheshire an apology because it legitimately just spites her whether you wanted it to or not >>
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 22:29:03 GMT -5 by The Traveller
How long have we been gone? How long have I been travelling?
Shinpei owns neither a Shihakushou and has not, until recently, served in the Gotei. Even his Zanpakutou is weird!
Is/was he a Variant? Should the Staff have forced him green?
Shinigami is both a profession and a purely racial term. You do not need to adhere to the profession to still be a Shinigami.
I don't think hahahahaha, this is great is the best way to come across with a strong argument but I digress. Lets look directly at what the wiki says under "soul":
There we go, a nice picture so there's no confusion. It says right there. SOME. SOME. SOME. Souls have spiritual power which can enable them to become a shinigami.
Some.
See that? An unknown number. A part of. #4 is the definition we're actually using here exactly. A logical proposition is asserted only of a subclass or certain members of the class denoted by the term it modifies.
This means that not all of the souls of the rukongai are shinigami. Or will ever become shinigami. Ever. They do not have the means to do it. They simply are not strong enough.
But lets assume this is not enough for you. Lets move on.
Right there it specifically stats that Shinigami act to balance out the souls. Not all souls are shinigami. Some are. Some are not. In fact from the sounds of it -most- are not. Hollows are considered souls. Arrancar. Plusses. Jibakurei. Tsukirei. Mod Souls. Humans who shed their bodies to invade soul society. None of these are shinigami either.
But lets assume that -also- is not enough.
What can we do further? We've already proven that not all souls are shinigami. The only thing further we can prove to you now is that Shinigami are not all souls. The reverse. So what makes a shinigami?
"When souls with exceptional spiritual energy train their bodies they reach the level of shinigami." - if they do not have exceptional spiritual energy...guess what? They can never become a shinigami. It even says there as well: Shinigami receive salaries. Wait, what's that? They get -paid-. Because Shinigami are a -military organization-. If all souls are shinigami that means they are -paying every soul in the rukongai- just for being there. And that simply is not true.
Your logic is flawed I'm afraid, but thank you for trying.
Because, Ine, this a petty issue that has existed before my creation of this thread and will continue to do so /afterwards./
This was as good a hallmark as any to point out the gross way Variants are being treated - much more effective than going "Hey, by the way, this 'anti-Variant' thing is really sucky and awkward and makes me and quite a few others feel uncomfortable" out of the blue.
This decision just felt like another straw upon the camel's back, with all due respect dealt to Miyuki.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 22:31:15 GMT -5 by Cheshire
We're singing I believe that lovers should be chained together and thrown into a fire with their songs and letters, and left there to burn. Left there to burn in their arrogance.
playing a variant has been supremely rewarding, the blank space has allowed me to create my own shit from a practically blank canvas, it provides me a place to make something where there is very little. the story would defs not have worked elsewhere.
'objective'
Your personal, emotional rewards are not objective rewards.
They're subjective.
For instance: I would get nothing out of that. I would feel nothing at all.
However, objectivity is not subject to the whims, tastes, and preferences of individuals.
Post by Miyuki Wakahisa on Jun 28, 2016 22:30:53 GMT -5
Naiads: Hey, guys! We’re doing something really cool! I hope you like it
Everyone Else: HOLY SHIT WHY AREN’T YOU GOING GREEN LIKE YOUR INITIAL PLAN THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO MAKE VARIANTS ALL HYPE AND NOW YOU’VE GONE AND RUINED EVERYTHING ALL BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR RACE WHICH IS PROBABLY ONLY GOING TO BE THAT WAY FOR A FEW MONTHS ANYWAY.
Naiads: ...We came out here to have a good time and honestly we’re feeling so attacked right now.
Bleach Gotei does not follow Bleach canon entirely. In Bleach Gotei, there are a number of differences. Reiatsu, for instance, actually IS power level here. Zanpakutou are NATURAL, not artificial and not Hollow shells. And in our world, all souls are Shinigami.
Your references and citations of Bleach franchise canon are accurate, but they are not our canon. You're new, so this is a totally understandable mistake.
This is an actual topic discussing an actual talking point.
No one has died. There's no national tragedy. Out of character discrimination against an in character fictional category by which applications are being organized is not something to get up in arms about. It's not an "issue."
You can still care about the outcome of something without getting pissed that it's being discussed in a lighthearted manner. The point being made with the name-color-changing is that those people should probably be variant too by some definitions presented. You're hurting your own case by being so indignant.
Deep breath. Re-evaluate the situation.
I mean, except for Ine. Just ignore him. He a dick.
Shinpei owns neither a Shihakushou and has not, until recently, served in the Gotei. Even his Zanpakutou is weird!
Is/was he a Variant? Should the Staff have forced him green?
Shinigami is both a profession and a purely racial term. You do not need to adhere to the profession to still be a Shinigami.
I don't think hahahahaha, this is great is the best way to come across with a strong argument but I digress. Lets look directly at what the wiki says under "soul":
(disclaimer: I didn't read your entire post)
This site has its own canon, some of which contradicts the manga canon. As such the wiki is not the best place to turn for an argument of how things work here.
Naiads: Hey, guys! We’re doing something really cool! I hope you like it
Everyone Else: HOLY SHIT WHY AREN’T YOU GOING GREEN LIKE YOUR INITIAL PLAN THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO MAKE VARIANTS ALL HYPE AND NOW YOU’VE GONE AND RUINED EVERYTHING ALL BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR RACE WHICH IS PROBABLY ONLY GOING TO BE THAT WAY FOR A FEW MONTHS ANYWAY.
Naiads: ...We came out here to have a good time and honestly we’re feeling so attacked right now.
Which is exactly what this is.
People are strawclutching because of their offense that others don't like Variants. They respond like younger men and women, with their heart at the front and nothing held back.
Admirable, but mistaken.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 22:36:12 GMT -5 by Shun Minamoto
This is an actual topic discussing an actual talking point.
No one has died. There's no national tragedy. Out of character discrimination against an in character fictional category by which applications are being organized is not something to get up in arms about. It's not an "issue."
You can still care about the outcome of something without getting pissed that it's being discussed in a lighthearted manner. The point being made with the name-color-changing is that those people should probably be variant too by some definitions presented. You're hurting your own case by being so indignant.
Deep breath. Re-evaluate the situation.
I mean, except for Ine. Just ignore him. He a dick.
I... am talking respectfully and succinctly and have not gotten 'worked up' at all? I don't understand this reply. I'm being clear with my view - not indignant.
The uncomfortable stigmatism against Variant is an ongoing issue and I don't know how better to phrase that. I apologize if you've felt like I'm on some kind of tirade to attack people.
We're singing I believe that lovers should be chained together and thrown into a fire with their songs and letters, and left there to burn. Left there to burn in their arrogance.
There are three plus souls currently listed under the color red, IIRC.
Colin, love him or hate him, probably championed treating Variants with respect most of anyone here, and when he prestiged Maya Tanaka, he had her color changed to Pink, despite the fact that she was definitely not a Shinigami.
Staff is not shitting all over this new race and MAKING them be in the red bracket, despite the fact that it follows precedence.
Bleach Gotei does not follow Bleach canon entirely. In Bleach Gotei, there are a number of differences. Reiatsu, for instance, actually IS power level here. Zanpakutou are NATURAL, not artificial and not Hollow shells. And in our world, all souls are Shinigami.
Your references and citations of Bleach franchise canon are accurate, but they are not our canon. You're new, so this is a totally understandable mistake.
I do understand actually that things are not entirely cannon here, but you're also saying that every single soul that dies and does not:
Become a Hollow
Become a Blank
or Become a Togabito (Hellbound)
(leaving out modsouls, and the two 'kirei's, and arrancar since mods are made, kiriei's are temporary, and arrancar are just advanced hollows basically)
is immediately a Shinigami. Period. All of them.
This is a very, very ridiculous claim to make, and completely goes against the idea of a soul cycle having any form of balance, or there being any kind of organized military that makes the Shinigami what they are. If your claim is correct, I'd love to hear it from a moderator like Emily White because to be honest, that raises a -ton- of questions about how things function in this custom universe.
Post by Shun Minamoto on Jun 28, 2016 22:42:49 GMT -5
Hi, Albrecht.
We have no Blanks and no Sinners.
If you're not a living human, and you're not a Hollow, you're a Shinigami.
That's exactly what I'm saying because I'm the one who made it like that as the former Site Owner. That's the reality of the situation that I created years ago, ridiculous or not.
Tokiyo could change that fact himself, though, since he's boss man as of a few months ago. You'd have to appeal to him.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2016 22:45:28 GMT -5 by Shun Minamoto
Eldest Son of the Minamoto Family
Welcome!
Welcome to Bleach Gotei, an alternate universe Bleach RP!