Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 29, 2015 15:41:25 GMT -5
i don't have a webcam, i can read my post out loud though and record it.
as for the calls to real action
um that is the policy, if you act like a fuckhead, you're going to be punished. I don't know how i can prove that right now, does someone want to be a fuckhead to test it?
And yeah, we get it, that's why the punishment is really on case by case, you thought it was okay because nobody had been punished before, it spirals, etc etc. Not going to not tell people to knock it off or else though.
Post by Karl Jager on Aug 29, 2015 15:42:00 GMT -5
Guess its time to throw by noob opinion into this whirlwind of emotion and accusations considering quite a bit of this is about how new players are effected by this and I haven't noticed a single new player comment.
First off, if I'm being completely honest this does come off as something that's not genuine, as I've witnessed a few times already that somebody has been criticized and I've also found a few past topics with the same material, and not once was it handled appropriately from what I've seen.
If the staff really wants to help, they need to take action and not just talk, like Malik said. Sitting in this topic and talking about your white knight plans is great and all, but it will do nothing to keep anybody on your site if they feel singled out or uncomfortable here. Personally however I have extremely thick skin to others comments and don't feel like this has happened to me, and if it has, I honestly don't care about the opinions of those who have nothing better to do than belittle people on the internet. And to you keyboard warriors out there, you know who you are, and I hope you're proud of the grief you have caused several people.
Its funny how the label of staff suddenly gives you this need to be run too, isn't it? When I was on staff I had people coming to me for every fucking shred of drama on the site (and I was in mechanics, storytelling, approvals and administration, never interpersonal). All I ever did was listen, respond, try to defuse and, usually, took them to another staff member and ask them to help.
Now I'm not staff and people coming to me less often? Why? I never had the authority in the first place to help you guys. I'm just as free to go to Tokiyo now.
This is almost why I proposed that the Ambassador program (i.e. Big Brothers/Big Sisters) operate in a pseudo-staff-like manner as a go-between...
i don't have a webcam, i can read my post out loud though and record it.
as for the calls to real action
um that is the policy, if you act like a fuckhead, you're going to be punished. I don't know how i can prove that right now, does someone want to be a fuckhead to test it?
And yeah, we get it, that's why the punishment is really on case by case, you thought it was okay because nobody had been punished before, it spirals, etc etc. Not going to not tell people to knock it off or else though.
Define "punishment"
this ain't for the best my reputation's never been worse, so you must like me for me we can't make any promises now, can we, babe?
Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 29, 2015 15:44:22 GMT -5
post mods, cb bans, removal from site. I mean those are the go to, it depends on the offense and the response of the person when it is addressed and the history among other factors.
People say they'll solve something in private way too often, and the problem only disappears for a short time.
This. This community is hopelessly interwoven. You can't pluck a string without loosening a dozen others. Even the least relevant problem gets learned about down the grapevine. But these "solutions managed in private" only rarely see the light of day. Resentment is far more yieldy a crop than compassion or understanding, unfortunately. And that part of human nature should be acknowledged in how things are done.
Holy shit I'm like a shark. I just can't stop making metaphors.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 29, 2015 15:47:12 GMT -5
Yeah one big thing, and this isn't just on this subject is things being handled privately, not being handled and then no follow up. it kinda comes down to both sides, one person trying to help thinking its okay, but the other person not being satisfied with resolution. robert had a really cool idea of a solution i'm not sure we're ready to talk about on this front? but suffice to say it is a HUGE issue we're working on.
i don't have a webcam, i can read my post out loud though and record it.
as for the calls to real action
um that is the policy, if you act like a fuckhead, you're going to be punished. I don't know how i can prove that right now, does someone want to be a fuckhead to test it?
And yeah, we get it, that's why the punishment is really on case by case, you thought it was okay because nobody had been punished before, it spirals, etc etc. Not going to not tell people to knock it off or else though.
Define "punishment"
better yet, define 'Fuckhead'.
Is it someone who calls others racial/sexual/regional/religious slur?
Someone who sarcastically demeans others and their accomplishments?
Or how about someone who enables abuses to happen?
Does that count?
I don't wanna see a statement of "we'll get this done."
I wanna see a plan, written up, detailing what actions are an offense, how staff will react, how many offenses it takes to be banned, and finally a way for someone to record their complaints away from hands that might have an agenda.
Having been here for 4 years I can attest that staff doing something without proper preparation will make things worse, not better.
The site is a delicate ecosystem. Everything is connected. Its like the rainforest. You change one thing, even the tinniest thing, and the whole rainforest dies. You don't want the rainforest to die, do ya? /IT-crowd
Finally, being this is a new direction for the site people shouldn't be punished, chastised or even publicly ridiculed for past misbehavior. Including in this thread. Especially by staff.
Otherwise there's no exception and literally everything that anyone has done to someone else...
Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 29, 2015 15:53:02 GMT -5
better yet, define 'Fuckhead'.
Is it someone who calls others racial/sexual/regional/religious slur?
Someone who sarcastically demeans others and their accomplishments?
Or how about someone who enables abuses to happen?
Does that count?
I don't wanna see a statement of "we'll get this done."
I wanna see a plan, written up, detailing what actions are an offense, how staff will react, how many offenses it takes to be banned, and finally a way for someone to record their complaints away from hands that might have an agenda.
Post by Fulfillment on Aug 29, 2015 15:54:37 GMT -5
Uh, woah guys, woah...
Why are we all up in arms about this? It's a site issue, no one disputes that. Staff has decided to try to deal with it.
Can we move on to figuring out how to deal with it? This conversation isn't productive at all! Yes, Bri unlocked the storm, but seriously.... She got ignored about this issue for months on end too! It's not like it happens to her once and suddenly everyone's on board. It took Bri leaving for people to start to deluge staff with their personal stories and anecdotes. It took everyone being blunt and upfront about it to get it recognized as a problem. Is that kinda late? YES! Does that matter right now? NO!
Guys, we have an issue with BG. Let's start fixing it, instead of rolling around in the wound.
So, staff's saying that from now on they will be warning people if they get comments about them. Do we need to discuss what happens after the warning of that person keeps bothering the same player? What details do we need to be in control of? I'd imagine this would be dealt like any other Interpersonal issue used to be, only now we're all aware that the line's been drawn and it won't be ignored or tolerated anymore.
Before anyone says "then post/do it now":Having been here for 4 years I can attest that staff doing something without proper preparation will make things worse, not better.The site is a delicate ecosystem. Everything is connected. Its like the rainforest. You change one thing, even the tinniest thing, and the whole rainforest dies. You don't want the rainforest to die, do ya? /IT-crowd
then that brings up the question of why staff is duking it out with members here instead of focusing their energy on the problem.
You don't like what people are saying?
Prove them wrong and get started on fixing this.
I promise, the unspoken vindication will be far sweeter than arguing with Colin.
Post by Fulfillment on Aug 29, 2015 15:56:26 GMT -5
Also, while there should be lines that are written down as things we can't cross, it's really going to be subjective. If you feel someone bothered you with a statement, and you ask them to stop making said type of statements about you, then that should be it. It doesn't matter if it officially crosses some "religion/political/racial" line or whatever, it crossed your personal one. If that player keeps doing it after being asked to stop, tell staff, and they will handle it.