if other events are being viewed in a different light now, does this mean those other events are also being put under review? i understand it's terrible that this happened, but as we all know, this has been going on for a long time. it's nothing new
you guys have fucked up and now that you realize it everything thats been left untouched before shouldn't get a pass because it happened before this
In all seriousness, this has been a huge problem here on our site. In the past the ideal has been liberty in the form of anti-censorship. But the license of such liberty has been taken too far. So far, in fact, that we have compromised our freedom to safely roleplay here. I've always been told that if someone quits after being bullied, that the quitter was the "problem member" and our community was better off without someone who was "thin skinned". Yet the more often I see productive members losing their motivation to continue writing here because far less productive members are barraging them with unwarranted and nonconstructive negativity, it makes me realize that the idea is fallacious.
Roleplaying is about collaborative writing. I shouldn't have to investigate whether or not people are in the right cliques before roleplaying with them. I should be okay judging them by the frequency and quality of their stories, characters and posts (literally their successes in collaborating with other like-minded members).
Knowing that my stories are jeopardized by potential harassment because the policies of the site have always been "we refuse to censor" and "suck it up; its tough love" is ludicrous. A creative and engaging space does require some level of constructive criticism. But engaging in such criticism without the use of constructive compliments does more harm than good. When I reviewed Colin and Hi-To's work, I tried my best to tear their threads apart. I kept the reviews private. I kept the comments focused on the work and not the players. And, most importantly, I told them what they did that worked, so they'll know they don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
That being said, it really is up to staff to maintain equal parts community and personal diligence to ensure that entire networks of players aren't ran off the site, temporarily or permanently, because of obtuse harassment.
We can't force people to like each other. We can't force them to play with each other. We don't want to censor people's ability to criticize. But there is a line between criticism and harassment. And when we are losing members because of an established and, worse yet, encouraged system of abuse, we have a problem. Not just for the abuser, the abused and the staff. But rather everyone's confidence in their ability to finish a god-damned story without their thread partners losing all faith in the site and quitting.
If you think Brianna was the first, or the last, your wrong. I reported a post written by a staff member that had caused at least one member to quit our site. A post that is still visible and, for a vast majority of the site unaware of the extremely niche circumstances of the article in question, presents nothing but a vivid example of the kind of abuse that makes me sick writing this post.
Like Jian said: You don't have to be nice. But if you can't figure out a reasonable way to present your argument that leaves the person with dignity as a fellow contributing member of our community, whether or not you actually respect them more than the smegma under your balls, go to any of our widely available staff members and ask them how it could be reworded. We are a god-damned creative writing community. And if your integrity means you can't fake it, just don't press the "post" button.
>Write Post >Press Post >Literally 8 posts since I wrote mine. >Now on bottom post of first page.
Fuck it, its too important. Shameless double post with added content so it can't be deleted.
Bullying cannot be completely suppressed as we don't live in an ideal world. It can, however, be highly discouraged from the bottom and top, leaving the middle to follow in its example. And by "the top", I mean staff. And by "the bottom", I mean inactive and new members of the community, who shouldn't be perpetrating or subjected to this bullshit.
Post by Jian Oreachi on Aug 29, 2015 15:23:02 GMT -5
if other events are being viewed in a different light now, does this mean those other events are also being put under review? i understand it's terrible that this happened, but as we all know, this has been going on for a long time. it's nothing new
you guys have fucked up and now that you realize it everything thats been left untouched before shouldn't get a pass because it happened before this
It won't be given a pass. As I mentioned parties have been, will be reached out too although it may take some time. Punishments may or may not be metered out depending on the situation.
I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if you were all really so sickened about this their would have been a step between "maybe we should do something" and "look how broken my heart is. Is your heart as broken?" Especially when the community cried out to you over and over again. That makes this sudden righteousness seem fake as hell.
I'm just not sure if you're lying to us or yourself.
Whatever. I'll watch how things move forward as usual but I really can't imagine things changing.
Post by Consequence on Aug 29, 2015 15:25:11 GMT -5
It won't be given a pass. As I mentioned parties have been, will be reached out too although it may take some time. Punishments may or may not be metered out depending on the situation.
Making sure people understand is considerably more valuable than retroactively punishing anyone at this point.
As has been mentioned, we'll never the untold number we have lost along the way, or undo the damage that had already been inflicted. But being clear about what will not be okay going forward along with highlights based on past conduct is, I think, invaluable.
Admitting you've got a problem is the first step towards fixing it, which is a start.
Don't confuse this with enthusiasm, however. You've barely taken a step towards any form of a solution to this. Some will disagree with me and say it's even less than that, and I can't honestly blame them, all things considered.
I don't wanna see another statement for staff saying this has to stop, we'll get this problem fixed, insert promise here.
I wanna see ACTION.
I wanna see staff listing the steps they're going to be taking to correct this, and I wanna see that staff makes sure to present those steps to everyone.
I wanna see Staff taking someone to town for their actions, and punishing them for it.
Keep doing that over and over and over again, and then in a few months we can talk about whether or not that plan worked or not. If it didn't work to our satisfaction, make a new one. Implement it. Repeat the process until we arrive at a solution.
Or we can keep talking abot how regretful this is. Doesn't matter to me right now, I have beer.
Post by Lucian Volitare Crimson on Aug 29, 2015 15:30:45 GMT -5
I mean, come on guys. The fact that whether or not this is genuine is beyond me. Granted the timing may have been brought on by the lost of one of the staff. But You guys are making this out to be the elite vs the masses. Jian has no reason for the politics.
He doesn't get any kind of tangible reward out of this. So for you guys to say this post is some kind of cover up may allude to your past pain and issues.
But this in my eyes isn't a cover up. Bri leaving may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. And now they see that it has finally gotten to the point to where one of our oldest and more revered staff members has been effected and ran off.
I don't really care if he did it or not, and it's not really the point. I am more than a little irked that you seemed to be using that accusation you made to basically communicate "well we didn't take action against you either, so you have no right to criticize anything at all."
No.
You built this sandbox. Don't blame the kids for playing in it.
There was a post that was literally the definition of toxic. It caused three members to quit and over half a dozen threads to die due to the demotivating and unconstructive nature. And while it wouldn't have had such an impact had everyone been aware of the unposted circumstances and eventual posted retraction of a great part of its more toxic elements, its caused members to resent the staff literally months later, certain people getting jollies out of using it to badmouth staff.
This happened. I asked. It was hidden. A positive change: at least new members won't be subject to old bullshit in an effort to undermine and demotivate otherwise productive members of our community.
- Are all of you truly Staff because you want to help, enjoy doing the work and have enough time to dedicate to it? Quite frankly, I think that is not the case. I won't list names, but we all know who the ones are that are barely around, never raise their voice for anything, you can hardly see them doing anything.
1. How are we supposed to reach out to Staff if we don't even know them? Personally, I'd find it impossible to tell ANYONE in Staff anything personal, or a personal problem, because I don't even know you guys. You are strangers. Do we see Jasper and Dew around enough to bond with them? Ok, I ended up listing names anyways, no offense guys, especially to you, Dew! This is just an example.
In my opinion, Staff should have some sort of connection with the community, WE should be comfortable contacting you guys.
If you are Staff because of the prestige Status that comes with it, please leave.
If you don't have the time to dedicate, please leave.
If you don't have a voice and let everything be decided by Tokiyo, please leave.
Please use your time wisely, because if you waste it like that, we are also the ones suffering from it.
- Is Staff charismatic enough? Do we respect you guys? Well, not really. Why? Because you fucked up greatly, you abused our trust AND you're never really doing anything. I'm not asking you guys to rule this site with fear, but knowing that you won't ban people because you are afraid of the public riot that might happen if you do, helps everyone to just do what we want.
Doing what we want should only be an IC thing. NOT OOC! There need to be rules and they should be enforced?
Someone's being a mean fuck? Well, fucking ban them. They are being a pain in the ass. It's handled like that everywhere else and you really can't pretend having a good community and everyone gets along oh so well and whatnot, when you really are just avoiding the problems and pretending that everybody loves everybody.
Ps. It would also be very helpful if you'd stop recruiting people and just teach your current Staff what they need to know so everyone can help.
I know this thread is supposed to discuss the matters of cyberbullying, but we've only come this far because of Staff, so I feel like Staff should be adressed too!
And I really wanted to say all these things. xD
this ain't for the best my reputation's never been worse, so you must like me for me we can't make any promises now, can we, babe?
Post by Sobek Septicemia on Aug 29, 2015 15:35:58 GMT -5
...People say that Bri went inactive. But i see shes in the Banned group. Did she personally ask for that to show her never coming back or are we missing a piece of the puzzle?
...People say that Bri went inactive. But i see shes in the Banned group. Did she personally ask for that to show her never coming back or are we missing a piece of the puzzle?
And not to sound like a 19th century Evangelical/Temperance/Abolitionist, but what Zeke says is on target.
Freedom from temptation is itself a freedom. Laws can "free" us from having to subject ourselves to that which makes us less perfect, allowing social contract and the potential to create a more ideal community. If we don't have the tools to even try to get better, at best we will stagnate. This is not a popular view, since taken to an extreme it means censorship and over-moderation. But there's a reason its called "moderation". You take it in moderation. You use it in moderation. And you find a middle path that doesn't cause damaging extremes.
Yes, staff are months (even years) late with this announcement (not that we haven't had announcements like this in the past; we have). But it was made. And I'm not going to get angry because the right thing was done "too late". Especially when "par for the course" with this kind of bullshit, the right thing is just never fucking done.
On a VERY cynical and possibly hurtful note: This is a writing community. Saying someone just wrote something is...I mean should he have made the apology a video?